Gambling Illegal?


(Elisha Valor) #1

I saw this in local and came across a channel which I won’t mention but it’s pretty obvious by the copy paste what its’ called. Looks like someone was going to run a gambling site via twitch for the results. My question is, is this against the EULA/TOS?

EVE System > Channel MOTD: <fontsize=18><color=0xff007fff>Welcome to Across the Board!

<color=0xffff00ff>Across the Board, is a new venue for players looking to scratch that gambling itch, that was left behind when CCP closed the 3rd party gambling websites.

However, in game gambling is not banned, or prohibited.

<color=0xff00ff00>So how does this work, and why is it not a scam, you’re asking yourself? And you would be 100% in your right to ask. Every gambling website has to build up a reputation, and it will be slow at first but I hope to gain that trust with a few basic mechanics.

<color=0xff007fff>The game works on a simple principle, slightly inspired by Eve Holdem, players will see the games currently being ran in <url=joinChannel:-84189468//None//None>ATB Games<color=0xff007fff> which will be between a maximum of four people in the start.

Players will iniate the games, or request games, by asking for games to be done in this chat, once the banker (located in ATB Games) recieves the isk from both players, they will use random.org to draw a random number, via twitch and post it into the ATB games chat as proof of the win, and then pay the corresponding player. All games come with a 5% vig that the banker gets to keep, that is automatically tallied on to the wager.

For instance we will offer a small games at first to build reptuation and as we gain respect/trust we will increase them. For now all games will be 10.5 per player leaving 1m for the banker, 21m per player leaving 2m for the banker or 32m leaving 4m for the banker. If two parties wish to gamble for more, they may request it at any time.

<color=0xffff00ff>It’s very basic and simple, and I really hope you come to Trust and find Across the Board a very fun environment to gamble in.

<color=0xffffff00>Furthermore: We expect some people to think this is a scam, my only hope is that over time players will learn to trust and accept that the results are fair and random, as we will pull them from random.org

<color=0xffff00ff>Some rules: Be respectful of everyone in the chat, no links of any kind, and no advertising, but most importantly have a lot of fun!


(Tipa Riot) #2

Sure it is against the rules, report it.


(Elisha Valor) #3

I’m not sure how it’s against the rules however. That would need to be clarified, as I guarantee all sorts of gambling still occurs off the radar.


(Nevyn Auscent) #4

For a start it’s using two different third party sites in it’s mechanics.


(Do Little) #5

ISK can be exchanged for PLEX in-game; PLEX has real world value and is considered to meet the legal definition of “money’s worth”. This means that gambling legislation applies to games of chance using ISK. Each jurisdiction where Eve players live will have a different set of rules creating a legal nightmare if CCP is complicit in the use of its IP for gambling. Their only reasonable choice is an absolute ban.


(Elisha Valor) #6

I want an actual answer from CCP, considering all we’re going to get is speculation. I do not understand the significance of using “two 3rd party” sites to do anything in eve. Twitch and Random.org are not using eve online’s API. So…


(Elisha Valor) #7

Weird because I can gamble in a duel… and that is some how just fine? If there is not a predetermined outcome, then it would be considered gambling. CCP allows gambling via the dueling system for ISK/ aka IRL money now. I can’t take anyone’s word on this issue unless it comes from the horses mouth, as there are a lot of technical and legal issues.


(Kathern Aurilen) #8

I remember when there were gambling sites using isk. You would transfer isk to a character and they would keep the names in a database with your amounts. Then you gamble on their web site.

They outlawed it when a gambling gazillionair started a war invading, the big blue ring hiring thousands of mercs. It was a mess if I remember correctly.

I think he even had a news articles how he trained every skill in the game with skill injections. They banned him and all his I’ll gotten isk.


(Kathern Aurilen) #9

I think CCP was afraid of the gambling laws, and killed it before anything was said to them.

I won a Nemesis on one site.


(Wander Prian) #10

If you want an answer from CCP, make a support ticket.


(yellow parasol) #11

I bet you a billion isk that gambling isn’t allowed. :rofl:


(Nana Skalski) #12

CCP

Outlaws gambling then allows betting on ship fights. :psyccp:

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/end-user-license-agreement-changes-coming-with-eve-online-ascension/

You may not use, transfer or assign any game assets for games of chance operated by third parties.

Looks like only CCP can provide you with gambling tools and take profits from it.


(Black Pedro) #13

A contest of skill is different than one based on chance. Awarding a prize to the winner of a competition or tournament is generally fine, while awarding a prize at the behest of an RNG is not. It’s people trying to skirt prohibition of chance-based contests that led to those famous ‘skill testing questions’ that are, or at least were, so ubiquitous for giveaways and draws.

While there can be grey areas (often invented by people trying to get around the rules) whether something is a skill-based competition or a random lottery is usually obvious. But no one can definitely tell you one way or another for a specific case except CCP, so just make a petition and talk to a friendly GM who will set you straight.


(Elisha Valor) #14

I’m not inventing a grey area to skirt the rule, mind you. I am inquiring about this individuals game that operates outside of eve online, that doesn’t use anything owned by ccp to conduct the actual gambling. It doesn’t even use an API.

Poker is considered a game of skill, yet it is still classified as gambling in American and around the world. Online an RNG determines the outcome of the 5 cards, and while people can get people out of the hand, it is still gambling. The fact that you can outperform an individual in hopes to recover your wager, and gain theirs as well, regardless if skill is involved is still gambling.


(ISD Stall) #15

@Elisha_Valor as the legality or illegality of this specific channel and website would be determined by CCP please file a support ticket https://support.eveonline.com . The Game Masters will investigate and deal with this as they see fit.

Please note that players will be unable to give you the type of answers you appear to be looking for so your best option is the support ticket.


(Elisha Valor) #16

Thanks dude. Nice mustache btw.


(Black Pedro) #17

Indeed. Poker though is largely a game a chance, but arguably falls into a bit of a grey area. I am not a lawyer, but running a tournament of Bridge, another skill-based game of chance, and awarding a cash prize, is usually fine in most place. The distinction I agree is a bit arbitrary, but I imagine it hinges on the fact that a large element of poker is making wagers on the relative strength specific hands, whereas in bridge the final prize is awarded based on just beating the other players. Probably running a poker tournament with just tokens (not cash bets per hand) is legal is some places (especially if there is no buy-in), while betting actual money on a single hand is not, but again I am not a lawyer so don’t go start a poker parlour on my advice.

Regardless of this, Eve’s restriction specifically mentions third-party gambling sites. Duelling is completely within the client and is fine. Probably running a chance-based lottery where the winner is determined by a random event inside the client is also fine. The major problem comes when your gambling goes on outside the game client like you describe in the OP. Gambling was fine for years in Eve and I don’t think the changes made last year were for moral reasons or anything. CCP just didn’t like both the accumulation of “unassailable wealth” those sites produced, and the legal liability that condoning gambling of virtual assets might put them in given the legal noises going on in certain jurisdictions. If you, or anyone else, can come up with a gambling system that is done completely within the game client, you should be golden.

Just ask CCP. They’ll let you know definitively whether something is legit or not, as they are the ones making the rules.


(Nana Skalski) #18

This proves only that CCP dont like competition with off the game sites and third parties and is ok with gambling when it comes to in game mechanics provided by devs.


(Elisha Valor) #19

I’m sure they would of loved to of kept IWI and the other sites online, but due to legalities it wasn’t worth the risk. EEP came out and said he was in talk with CCP prior to being pegged as an RMTer which he denies, and said that in 3 years that it was up, direct plexes bought, sold on the market and then xfered to I want isk, made CCP 2 million in addition sales in 3 year. Trust me CCP wanted these gambling sites running.


(Scipio Artelius) #20

Because transferring ISK to a third party for a game of chance is banned.

It doesn’t matter whether it is in game or out of game.

If it’s a direct wager between players, it’s no problem, however as soon as a third-party is involved in the ISK, it’s against the EULA.