Gank free mining spaces? A possible solution

Just throwing out some ideas purely for the purpose of discussion. Apologies in advance for a TL:DR post but do bear with me.

As I understand it, there are three primary groups involved in the PvP vs No-PvP discussion.

  1. “Care Bear” miners, and I am using this term in a respectful manner, are basically players who do not want to be involved in the PvP aspects of the game but would rather be left in peace to mine rocks while socializing. They have a legitimate argument and honestly, PvP should not be forced on people who truly have no interest in this type of activity.

  2. CODE and company , basically players who want to pursue the more nefarious aspects of game play, including “role playing” criminal elements and making sport of exploding mining ships. Seriously, I personally do not have an issue with this type of game play even though I would not particularly want to indulge in this sort of play. But that said, given the nature of the EvE universe and its history, these types of activities are perfectly valid, even if it is an unwanted imposition on other people’s play rights.

  3. Pirates and haulers, are a special case. The game needs both and I have not seen much in terms of posts complaining about the practice of piracy in the EvE Universe. As I understand it, pirates have been around ever since the game started and all serious hauling corporations have contingencies to deal with the issue; so no one is seriously complaining about the practice.

It is my contention, within this article, that “open space” or “public space” within the EvE hi-sec systems should fundamentally remain unchanged. You cannot logically have zones which are completely safe zones. In effect the game already has these in the form of stations, but there should be no safe passage guarantee once you un-dock. It doesn’t make sense nor do I believe that it will be healthy for the game in the long term.

So here is my proposal in a nutshell:

  1. Within 1.0 systems only, there can be gated dead space mining areas - once a mining ship enters these spaces they will be free (for the most part) to mine unmolested. However…

  2. There is only one of these areas per 1.0 system with limited mining resources in the sense that behind the gated areas they are only a limited number of asteroids; but generous enough to make each session a profitable proposition.

  3. Further, within this dead space are a series of rooms. The first room contains liberal amounts of the most common ores, the next room contains some of the slightly more exotic ores, the next room contains even more desirable ores, and the last room would contain limited amounts of the types of ores that can usually be found only in low sec areas. Perhaps even ice and gas resources.

  4. BUT… no one should ever get a free pass at anything in EvE; each level of room should contain rats of the corresponding types usually found in the sectors where these ores are found and these should spawn more frequently and be at least slightly stronger than the same type found in open space. Strong enough to take out AFK farmers if not addressed. At the highest level, this zone should require an organized mining fleet to enter and may require combat ships escorts.

  5. There is a price of entry into this mining dead space; either in the form of a payment using ISK or actual PLEX. This payment grants one token per ship per payment and the token last for one session only. The session can be for one calendar day and expires at server reset, whichever comes first. If you don’t carry the token in your ship’s hold you cannot enter. Further, if you are carrying a token in your hold, you cannot be targeted by any player ship with the possible exception of logi vessels within the same fleet.

An alternate method (and probably more sensible) is that the tokens can only be purchased by corporations with discounts for starter corporations - ie. those that do not own a structure.

Now, it should be apparent that space and resources are limited within these mining safe spaces; and that is perfectly fine. We do not want to see a thousand ships head into one of these spots; so the entry tokens should be expensive and issued in limited quantities; but they do guarantee a gank free mining experience and a chance at rare ores.

So not everyone can get in or can afford to get in; this is fine, people really do need to learn to play the game; but for the dedicated care bear, here is your spot in miner’s paradise.

But the system is still not without risks from aggressive actions on the part of other human players. First of all you have to get there; secondly, there are no stations within this dead space. You need to get organized to get the most out of these spaces. You will also have to compete with other miners for resources; this is a good thing.

Plus, there is nothing stopping CODE from entering and demanding their dues as even though they cannot shoot you, they will probably find more creative ways to make a miner’s life more interesting. A sort of “painless” PvP; but at least you won’t get ganked or exploded and in many ways this type of “nursery space” is a good training ground for more difficult content in “real space”. Plus there are plenty of mechanics to coerce cooperative game play.

This type of system will also quickly sort out the “men” from the “boys”; real miners, excel at reaping great profits in real space with real threats because they have learned to play the game. For everyone else, they can farm for ores in one of these “Care Bear Nurseries”.

Oh, BTW, being in a dead space type area, CONCORD does not intervene…

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There is already something like this in the game. It’s security mission mining. You get your own mission pocket, some can contain 2mil+ units of veld and some other rocks (not a miner, so I don’t know how long that would take to mine), and can be farmed up to 7 days. You can still be scanned down of course, but if you are not at the warp in beacon, it buys you time to get away. You can also get these missions in out of the way systems that get little traffic, so you’re even less likely to be a target.

This option has pretty much been around forever, but it’s an extra step to mining, so maybe the reason some don’t use it, but you can’t say there aren’t options, and still maybe way better option than exposed asteroid belts…

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This is the thing I have an issue with. You shouldn’t be this safe and also be profitable. You’re mining in a 1.0 security space, it’s not supposed to provide you with a wealth of income.

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You cannot both be safe/risk-free and make money. The market would simply collapse as safe areas will be over farmed.

What you want is fundamentally not eve.

If they have no interest in this activity, why are they playing a pvp sandbox like eve?

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They don’t socialize while AFK mining - they are just trying to get enough isk to fund their tendency to camp gates in lowsec, where they kill noob explorers and haulers.

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You are really ignorant about this, and should maybe not write such a long post based upon pure speculation. If you talked to anyone in CODE., you would learn that nobody is roleplaying a criminal element. We are simply the rightful duly appointed government representatives of high sec.

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TLDR:

“I am a carebear. Nowhere should be safe. Therefore, there should be a safe zone. This nursery should have great profits. CODE. will be allowed to engage in painless PvP, but they cannot fire their guns.”

How do you take yourself seriously when you write such drivel?

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Just wait until August 27th.
WoW Classic PvE servers will welcome you with open arms.

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It’s not forced on you. Participation in EVE is voluntary.

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They do not have an argument when the premise of the game, supported by its internal lore, is that there are no code mechanics and no internal institutions to prevent PvP. You don’t have to like it. You don’t even have to accept it. But, anyone not doing the latter would be best advised not to play the game, because otherwise they will get totally frustrated.

That’s it in a nutshell. Don’t get hung up on the “criminal” part. They can and do play a role, and the best advice for you or anyone else who doesn’t like it is … do not participate. Stay silent. Block them. No salt on forums. No ranting on local or in your bio. Certainly no “GF”. Take any hits you cant avoid. Move on.

And the difference between pirates compared with ganking is precisely what, in your mind? Other than some mechanics, and role-playing “ideology”, there is no difference.

At which point my reaction was … so, what is the point of your proposal(s)? In the end you are talking about “nursersies” and not fundamental change. Meaning, nothing will change, hence … what’s the point??

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:crazy_face: I really think PI mining is still the way to go, the player chooses, ore or PI materials.

Playing devil’s advocate here, but isn’t this exactly what Care Bear miners are asking for when they are demanding that hi-sec systems be made into safe zones?

The logical implication of this is, and CCP is probably fully aware of this as are veteran players, that making hi-sec PvP free will completely destroy what EvE is as both a concept and a game.

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Just to emphasize, I don’t want this, but purely for the sake of a discussion, I just summarized everything that the Care Bears on this forum seem to be asking for into this hypothetical package so that people will fully realize what they are really asking for and the implications.

Absolutely true - if they’re AFK, by definition they are not there. But on the second point, isn’t this the same as what CODE is doing if you remove their role-playing veneer?

Rightful duly (sic) appointed government representatives of high sec appointed by whom again? Regardless of your semantics, CODE activities are “criminal” by definition as define by common civil standards. Do note, however, that I personally have no issue with what CODE does or how they choose to represent themselves.

BTW, “ignorance” is bliss and “speculation” is fun.

I don’t take myself seriously and as for you, thank you for responding to this “drivel” after at least having the decency of giving this post at least a casual glance. I really do appreciate it. Also, for future reference, I actually do agree with the underlying logic behind what it is that you can CODE does; EVE IS A PVP GAME and should be recognized as such and NEVER be changed in this aspect.

Also, you seem to have a great passion for what it is that you are arguing for and wherein I may not agree on all your points, I deeply respect what it is that you have set out to do.

Oh god no - I did that years ago. Once was enough, tyvm. Hence, why I am over here playing EvE. :joy:

Amen.

Like I said, I am new to EvE. I’ve come here to learn to play it as it is meant to be played but currently, as a newbie I am in a Hi-sec mining/social corp full of essentially care bears and the article above just summarizes essentially their thoughts.

I’ve been involved in PvP play for a long time in other games - it is something you choose to do or not do. No one forces you to do it. This is even true in EvE and it is a PvP-centric game. The truth is that the game economy will tank if ships don’t get exploded and it is actually extremely hard to find PvP opportunities.

Personally, I don’t agree with anything CODE says but that’s because I am a rebel at heart; but I agree with everything that they are trying to do for the good of the game eco-system.

I’m going to give you the same lecture I was given a few years back young blood there is no such thing as a safe space this is EVE online the safest space you’re ever going to have is in the station doing station trading and that’s boring as hell.
Mining can be done really safely in a procurer tank it properly if you need to fit holler at Man game I will get one to you

Here comes a common sense unless you need to be in a system where there’s lots of people like mining ice you need ice for fuel blocks you have to be there that’s the only time you need to be there

If you see a lot of people popping local all at once dock up it’s all about watching your local 9 your surroundings if there’s more than I would say 15 people on local
it’s too busy for me I like to move to quieter spaceyou really have to watch your local and also once you get ganked add them as a contact make them red

that way when you see them coming to system you had to knock up or you start using d scan can you see them land on your grade on d scan you dock the hell up
Relatively safe for life

Goodnight fly safe

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Yeah, as was said there are already deadspace mining zones in the form of missions. Then there were even more heavily gated ones in the form of Resource Wars. These things already exist.

See, these “Care Bear Nurseries” will just be swarmed by veterans, or even bots, running multiple accounts. Either they will out-compete the newbros/carebears, or you provide unlimited ore which will depress the ore prices for newbros/carebears. The game already is suffering from an excess safe space for veterans and massive overproduction of ore, plus highsec is already essentially a 100% safe nursery for anyone not in a war-eligible corp and flying a tanked mining ship, so I don’t think more boredom and safety is the way to go.

Resource Wars, if actually rewarding, I think is the right way about building a interesting space for players who prefer fighting against NPCs then other players - it was interesting, interactive yet still had opportunities for players to influence each other. A good, safer mining space for players that contained game play, story, cooperation, and perhaps a little competetion.

CCP just needs to revamp that, and not even that much.

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Actually, there is a difference. Pirates in real life and as “modeled” in EvE is about “wealth redistribution”; ganking is a side effect of their activities. Plus I like pirates since some of my ancestors were exactly pirates.

Ganking is different in a very broad sense; that’s the strong picking on the weak or a group picking on one unfortunate. Financial consideration is not the main motivation for ganking; dominating over a weaker party is the primary goal. Besides, people historically have been “ganking” other people ever since the beginning of mankind. Ganking behavior in computer games is actually a reflection of true human conflict behavior - it’s natural for our specie.

No, go away.

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