I do not put my words in your mouth; as I said, I don’t know you. But I did follow the logic that if ganking is good, more ganking should be even better.
Hyperbolic?
Clearly.
But I see a problem with ganking regarding new players, and most answers brought up against the status quo seem almost generic and dismissive without addressing the OP. It’s almost as if no one cares.
This is a three year old’s view of things. Some sugar is good, so more of it is better. Some medicine is good, so more of it is better.
Come on, dude.
Ganking is not permitted in rookie systems. It’s very hard to do in 1.0 sec systems. Most new players are not ganking targets, and when they are, they’re being ganked by … new players. The most likely gank target is freighters, and nobody can be called a “new player” if they’re flying a freighter. So who exactly are you trying to save?
You are new to this debate, apparently - given your post to me was the first time you’ve ever posted on these forums. These questions, however, are not new, and in the four terms I’ve served on the CSM, you can set your watch by how often some random person comes in with a “…but the children!” argument against ganking, despite this being a viable, accepted playstyle in the game for almost twenty years.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the status quo has evolved the way it has for a reason. Have you considered that you are wrong?
I made a second post in the forum addressing two problems I hear new players have. I don’t want to spam it here, so you might read it there if you like to. I wrote over the last year 7000 emails to new players and discussed their problems with them. That makes me still a random dude, but a random dude with a lot of feedback gathered.
In my other post, you find the ganking of new players mentioned (among totally other things). And I mean the ganking of new players, not the ganking in general. Many do not read beyond the first mention of ganking there.
Most don’t even know what ganking is, and are using the term the way it’s used in other games and not in EVE. In EVE it has a very specific definition. Are you sure that these new players mean they’re being suicide attacked by a mass of ships that kill them before CONCORD can spawn, and aren’t simply saying they’re getting attacked by someone else when they don’t want to be for any number of reasons?
When they mentioned ganking, it was mostly an issue of suicide ganking. It mostly is an issue when the player is 6 to 8 weeks in the game and just made it to a better ship to manage a lv 3 or lv4 agent mission. At that point, they had to grind through very low-income ways. Throwing them back there was their problem. Players who could pass that 6 to 8 weeks unharmed had enough not to be thrown back to 0. That is what I revered in my other post as the 6 to 8-week wall of death for player retention. After that, they faced a new kind of problem that had nothing todo with ganking.
It is critical that new players get used to the idea of loss. If players are going 6-8 weeks “unharmed” that’s a bad thing. That creates unrealistic expectations - it’s one of the reasons why the NPE includes at least one forced ship loss where there’s no way to win.
Somebody that has played the game long enough to get to 6-8 weeks and running level 3-4 missions should be sufficiently seasoned that the loss of a single ship isn’t going to cause them to quit. If it does, they likely weren’t going to make it that far anyway.
Frankly, the focus should be less on ganking and more on getting that 6-8 week person into a player corporation, preferably not one in high sec honestly, that will ease them through the losses. That’s a far better retention factor than nerfing a gameplay style that has been continuallly nerfed for the last decade.
That is a misunderstanding, it takes them this long to finally be able to run these missions or other content. If they would make more isk it might help, but that would harm the risk vs. reward balance.
If there is a way for them to get to the point where they can afford such a loss, they will be fine. (It is not likely to be ganked two times in a row).
I could identify that period of time. After that, they are usually good to go. They then often take on the risk of a WH adventure or a low-sec adrenaline fight. Most of the feedback there was positive even if they lost their ship. Maybe because it was a planned adventure and risk. But that I don’t know.
The next issue then is the “new corporation problem” and the high-sec. Looking at that will probably help get more corps into the low-sec and 0.0
Oh come on they should at least seek out actual new player corps like eve uni or hell join karma.
Not all hisec corps are exploitive and actually will educate. I know i did when i waa training newbs and even got them set up for life as a goon.
Yes, they should hit legit new player corps, many of which will get them out of high sec pretty quickly. Highsec is a nice place for casual players or very long-term players with niche playstyles, but the average person getting into EVE will have much more fun in lowsec, null, poch or womehole space than they will in high sec.
I am not even a Goon/Init/Imperium, just stopped by to say I love @Brisc_Rubal and voted for him, he has a better grasp on things than these anti-ganking militants.
I came accross farming operations in highsec that were pretty much syphonning the ISK and materials to other null sec alliances. I strongly support ganking even tough I am not even doing it, there’s many people who should get ganked because they are all bottom feeders.
There are many miners in highsec who are just afk alts of low sec pirates too, this is real. They fill their pockets with ISK and once you are travelling in low sec, they will gate camp you and cyno a dread on you, all those are built and bought with their highsec alts
In the last war, many alts were created as Titan pilots, the ISK for the skill injectors came from highsec
Suicide ganking is not a problem, specially after all the nerfs… what is a problem is leaving the newbros by themselves and not giving them the right orientation so they can play and enjoy the game
People leave EVE because the chores and for being left out, not because of losing a ship or two
I agree in principal with your sentiments, regarding high sec space. But you cannot stop ganking! It happens in real life. Not only in bad areas where one might expect it, but in affluent, innocent and naive areas to! But as in the real world, the punishment MUST fit the crime. A pretty useless kill right, that is of no significance at all to the aggressor and the loss of their worthless ships are absolutely no deterrent at all. I propose. Let them that want to gank get on with it until their little hearts are content. BUT, make the punishment fit the crime! Fine the aggressor 75% of the total worth of their victims ship, cargo and implants. If this results in them going into negative equity then even better. For every crime, there must be a corresponding penalty, surely? o7
Are you yet another ubiquitous hero of the noobs?
Why? Because you actually don’t like ganking I assume. Just freaking say that instead of all this “I support ganking but I think every gank should result in a 10 billion isk fine to the ganker and permanent removal from hi sec” nonsense that you fools constantly espouse. Just say that you don’t want non consensual pvp in hi sec and be done with it.
I am who I am, not what you think I am, and never said it. If you want to know what I say, read what I say. If you don’t, good too. Up to you.
I’ll take that as a yes.
Kind of difficult when the Low/Null corporations with attractive incentives only want seasoned players. Most ask for at least over 5M SP and generally over 10M. No new player has 10M SP in 6 to 8 weeks unless he spends serious bucks to get there to end up in a corporation he may not even like.
You can say “noob corporations” but who wants to be exploited for ore?
I pretty much gave up looking for a corporation that may suit me. I will simply live in Losec as a solo player and maybe start a corporation of my own once I have enough friends to mean something.
Groups like Karmafleet, Horde and Brave accept new players, have good incentives, and don’t require any kind of skill point numbers.
Karmafleet: “Permitted Faction Enlistment: Amarr Empire, Caldari State”
I’m Gallente.
Horde: which one?
Horde Armada?
Horde Corporation?
Horde Excavation…?
Horde Gambling Commission?
Horde Industrial?
Horde Moon Rentals?
Horde Rearguard?
Horde Republic?
Horde of Barbarians?
Horde of Hellboy?
Hordes Angels?
…, …, …
I took the obvious one ( maybe ) Horde Corporation:
No description, no nothing.
Last time I contacted a corporation to get information they thought I was a spy.
Brave: Again, there’s about 30 corporations with ‘Brave’. I chose the obvious one ( maybe ) Brave New Pilots ( sounds good ) but again, precious little info: “The perfect Corp for Noobies. We help each other, fly together missions and explore the game together”
That one could be one choice. No word on PvP, Roams… I’ll try to enlist and see if they, too, think I’m a spy.
Thank you for the suggestions, Brisc!
PS: Brave New Pilots: Members: 1. Must be a sister corporation for another but which one?
10% tax rates… I might as well stay with Center for Advanced Studies.
Not so easy for a new player to find a corporation that is a match. I’m not going to join any ol’ corporation regardless.
Now I understand why I see so many one-man corporations.
That’s for players choosing to do faction warfare. It’s not a race requirement. Nobody cares about starting races, and the only reason we have the rule regarding FW is to ensure there’s no drama with members shooting other members.
Horde is Pandemic Horde, the largest Alliance in the game. When someone says “Horde” in EVE, they mean Pandemic Horde. A google search for “Horde Eve Online” has their website as the first result.
Brave is Brave Newbies. They are another of the largest groups in the game. They were founded as a new player friendly corp. A google search of “Brave Eve Online” has their website as the first result as well.