Why should they possibly care how much income they cost CCP? Isn’t that the companies problem? I’m guessing since that mechanic hasn’t been erased in 20 years that CCP does not believe it’s costing them money. They should know right?
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Debating whether or not a supposably 73 year old New Eden Minner would return with concerns on Highsec Ganking is not helping this thread debate at all.
(don’t wish to single your comment out personally here but I see your handle as a high ranking forum Capsuleer that does bring weight to a threads success and in this case it would be a successful debate.)
Rather show proof that there can be balance achieved between gankers vs antigankers if they stop moving the fulcrum along the seesaw.
You are assuming he is actually 73. Which I very much doubt he is 
Supposably 73 as may be assumed is not a part of the threads debate and reason I picked out that comment.
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It is for me
The age claim is made for obvious reasons.
Ganking in HighSec is one of the biggest things killing EvE and is unsustainable. New and returning players join, play for a bit, get ganked by a squad of catalysts or whatever where they should be safe, and quit. It’s about time people acknowledge the behavior behind it is nothing but toxic crap that needs to end and quit trying to justify it as part of the game when it does nothing but screw everyone.
Here’s some facts. At this point with roughly 25,000 active players, CCP is making about $500K/mo + pack sales in income. Stop and think about what their income threshold before they go under is. Dev team pay, server maintenance, GM’s, billing, taxes, payroll, advertising, etc… That $6mil/yr goes pretty fast when every paying account that leaves cuts $240/yr off the net amount.
How do you fix this in the game? It’s pretty simple, Make the whole concept of Risk Vs. Reward actually mean something for a change. It’s all people cry about these days anyways.
Stop gates and stations from working at all for players who’s sec standing is too low and take the sec standings all the way down to 0.1 sec systems. -6.5 or lower sec standing means they won’t even be allowed in 0.1 lowsec systems unless they’re docked in a carrier ship and someone physically brings them in. At which point local police need to be after them when they undock. Catalysts and other cheapies won’t last long against the sector police who should also periodically scan nearby capital ships at gates and stations to detect illegal cargo/criminals on board. Lost your respawn station? Too bad, now you respawn in a system where the sec status is appropriate for your crimes. Whoops. Actions have consequences…
Risk Vs Reward at play right there… And not just for the gankers, but also for their carrier captain alt who might lose some sec standing and have to face a couple police dreadnoughts and flee back to nullsec as well or risk losing their carrier because they decided to haul in a band of criminals and their ships to a sector they’re not allowed to be in… Sec standing loss needs to apply to all systems with positive sec standing. Right down to 0.1… Got scanned multiple times and lost a lot of sec standing? Whoops. Actions have consequences…
Make the sec standing rep every bit as grindy to get back as every other faction rep out there. Gankers want their sec standing back? They ought to have to grind for it just like everyone else does with normal faction standing. Pull the clone soldier security tags completely so people can’t simply “buy” their way back in to safety, or cut the standing increase rates down by a VERY significant margin 20:1 of what they currently are. Otherwise it only costs about 20m ISK to fix your security status back to -5. 140m to go back to -2. That’s pathetically cheap considering the damage they’ve done to get where they’re at security wise. 3.2 billion ISK to get back to -2 after having caused who knows how many players to quit and getting to -10 is far more reasonable. Alternatively, it’s only 800m ISK to get back into 0.5 sec space from -10 where they can grind some sec standing back up slowly via missions again. Again, far more reasonable considering they’re the ones responsible for the loss of players and decline in revenue.
Will the gankers cry? Hell yes. However, their actions should have real consequences and that’s part of balancing out the risks and rewards of hunting undefended (law abiding) mining ships or other players. The change will also inspire the current higsec miners to take greater risks and venture into lowsec systems where they will have to be tactically hunted with a cov-ops ship, a jump beacon, a carrier, and said gang of catalysts… Unless that gang has the sec standing to get in the system on it’s own…
This will be a very good change for small groups and small to mid-sized corps that are trying to build up. Gate camps in lowsec will have real consequences for the gatecampers who are simply murdering anything that pops up in a 10 or more to 1 mauling, instead of fighting a legit war. The gankers/gate campers will have to strategically use wardec’s and fight real fights or pay/grind in order to maintain sec standing to remain in the system for a change. This will help make it a lot less likely a new player will be jumping through a gate only to be exploded nearly instantly because a gatecamp’s actions will suddenly have real consequences.
What’s good for the newer players is good for the game, as it will keep them playing longer and make them feel more like they can actually accomplish something and go places rather than just be shoved into less than 5% of the EvE universe. Running the same dull missions over and over to buy a nice ship which ends up getting ganked puts people in the mindset of “Why bother?”. That midset directly leads to them quitting.
These changes would be VERY good for the newer players and help with retention. Highsec and Lowsec make up about 25% of the EVE universe. This doesn’t eliminate PvP in highsec, it doesn’t even restrict it to Wardec’s and faction PvP only. It simply means there will be real, hard hitting, and near immediate consequences for players bent on wanton destruction.
Anyways, thanks again for taking the time to read this. I truly do hope you guys at CCP do something to balance the gank squads out EvE and give new or returning players a reason to stick around. As it is, I’m going to take the $720/yr I was spending on 3 accounts and go elsewhere… I left in 2009 because of this stupid crap, and it’s worse now…
Enjoy the salt… I see no reason to continue to help fund your entertainment.
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And add more instanced content while you are at it!
Every international expert from the Distinguished Ganking Society on up to the Queen of the Universe have debated and agreed that Ganking attracts players to the game.
We need more ganking going on if we’re to bring the numbers back to their healthy level of 60k to 70k so you know what to do, gentlemen. Go forth and gank!
Thanks for bringing this sustainability problem to this august forum where adults can debate the issue in abject safety.
People being more safe in high sec will not force them into low or null
It will do the opposite actually.
You can’t also prove ganking is pushing people from the game as it appears to be mainly veterans leaving, not newbs.
Except they won’t because the war dec system got borked because people cried to daddy CCP.
Look bro, your aim is obvious. You don’t want this for the health of the game, you want risk free farming.
That isn’t EVE.
Want risk free farming? NMS is that way Even there it isn’t risk free LOL.
Not really. You know what’s better for the nubs? Teaching them. Instead of crying on the forums for daddy CCP to save them or you, go forth and save them yourself.
But you won’t. Because that involves doing actual work, which you don’t want to do.
If you actually cared, you’d join something like EVE-Uni or create your own to teach the nubs. But you won’t.
Yennoe what’s funny? I probably educate the nubs more than all of you who cry on the forums.
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Merged a Thread with same Topic into this one.
No. You’re not being statistically rigorous.
There’s lies, damn lies, and ■■■■■■■■ statistics.
Firstly, correlation is not causation as someone else said.
Second, your sample is not representative of the general population of Eve Online. Your sample is statistically biased: “Got ganked by me”. It’s illogical to make conclusions about any other population – including the general population – because that sample is not representative of anything other than… the people you ganked. How, why, and what caused them to be A) ganked and B) by you, are numerous factors not controlled for; and the how, why, and what caused people not to A) be ganked at all nor B) ganked by you are completely unrepresented in your statistic.
Thirdly, your statistic is meaningless without having comparable general population statistics. Consider: If 50% of people holding big metal poles in the middle of thunderstorms die by lightning, do we say there’s a 50/50 chance lightning will kill you when you go out in the thunderstorm? No, because the baseline rate of the general population of going outside and getting struck by lightning in a thunderstorm is less than 0.1%; the difference between the <0.1% and the 50% is illustrative of correlating behaviors. But you need both statistics to be able to draw any conclusions about “is the behavior of walking outside with a tall metal pole in a thunderstorm more likely to kill you?”. EDIT: Though for the purposes of your rant, it is more like “tall metal poles kill 50% of people that walk outside in thunderstorms! Get rid of tall metal poles!”
How this third one applies: if we took a random sample of capsuleers with zKill activity throughout March 2019 up to August 2021, how many of them had zKill activity in 2022? Suppose that number is 5%, then that would mean your ganking wound up increasing the number of active people still playing & PVP-ing in 2022 by a factor of 3x! You see why your statistic in isolation means nothing?
This prior paragraph is what CCP did and presented at a prior (older) fanfest when they said “we found being ganked increases retention”.
Thanks for reading all of this.
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To be fair - the CCP analysis was done before they got rid of highsec wars. So, there was more that JUST ganking involved.
Sure, but if they repeated the analysis now and saw lower retention rates across the board, that would imply bringing back high sec wars would increase the retention rate. The data says nothing about eliminating ganking.
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That was entirely too much logic and rational thought for the Eve forums.
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Another dude ganked no new players, and 95% of them quit.
Clearly, we should be encouraging ganking.
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Here’s a gank I did years ago as FC, the target was a character from 2017 and the gank happened in 2020, it took three years for his first line on zkillboard.
The only character who was biomassed here was the ganker #2, the ganker #2 was a really old man and he was in coms with us, he was in his +70s with his frail voice and old slangs we barely heard of before.
After we got concorded, by mistake he left his mic open and we heard him talking to his wife, he sounded just like a child of 7 years old, telling his mom his adventures in school!
He was like:
-We killed a ship and the POLICE showed up and exploded everybody!!!
He couldn’t stop laughing and he was overly enthusiastic explaining everything, it was a heartwarming moment! 
So here is a real case:
- miner was 3 years old and this is his only line on zkillboard, it still is his only line until today
- ganker #2 loved it and even told his wife about it, he biomassed
Nobody can explain what happened to those people in real life, why they came to EVE, why they left, nobody knows anything, we can’t create crazy theories about it.
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Let me check all gankers in this list:
- ganker #1: is posting, still around
- ganker #2: loved the thing, but biomassed
- ganker #3: was a voiceful antiganker, but he did a solo GANK in 2021 in The Citadel, saw his main at Jita recently
- ganker #4: disapeared
- ganker #5: was seen at Ahbazon just yesterday
What can we infer about this?
I can infer that people who experience EVE a little bit just to know the game will mine and then get bored, they will try the simplest thing and mine as if EVE was a single player game, they will get bored and find something else to do.
From the 5 gankers, there are 3 still playing EVE that I could confirm, 1 biomassed, 1 has not been seen.
Elite PVP had a better retention than mining.
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Like I said, the gankers are going to cry, and here they have. Including a CSM, which is absolutely something that one of the community managers should be doing if they want to give players the idea that EvE is nothing but a cesspool of toxic attitudes who aren’t looking for a solution to the problems with player retention. And the GM’s/Dev’s wonder why no one bothers to bring these topics up on the forums…
I notice a distinct lack of any constructive advice or suggestions from them on how to improve player retention. I also see a lot of people making strawman arguments and claiming that ganking isn’t partially responsible for the condition of EvE, while at the same time attempting to argue causal fallacies on the part of people who have simply pointed out the facts without going into their own killmails and clearly showing the number of players they’ve ganked, vs the number of players they’ve ganked that are still playing.
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We have no way of assessing if players are still playing. Kill boards are entirely ineffective for this. About the only way to do it would be to assign contracts to them or use locator agents on them over a period of time, to see if they ever move.