I am not misleading, the guy explicitly tried to claim the “83% of general population quits due to ganking” when what he really has is “83% of victims of one dude quit”. I pushed back against this argument which is the incorrect one due to the statistically fallacious leap.
Can you pretend the 83% number is meaningful outside of that one guy’s experience? Sure, have fun deluding yourself with faux armchair Reddit-style “logical” rigor. If that’s the case, if I told you that 100% of the newbies I’ve killed while being a lowsec pirate have not quit, would you please also use that statistic to “draw meaningful conclusions” for yourself too.
Ganking has been a thing since day 1. If you look at the EVE forum archives. the very first whines about high sec ganking were made in 2003, yet EVE is still going 20 years later. If 80%+ of new players quit because of ganking, EVE would have shut down 15 years ago due to lack of players…
The “problem” with player retention is quite easy, and has little or nothing to do with ganking in itself. There are a thousand other MMOs on the market now. This wasn’t the case even a decade ago. The current generation of gamers have been raised on games that are mostly single-player or have no way of being killed by other players. They have become conditioned to instant gratification. They don’t have the patience or mindset that it takes to enjoy a game like EVE. For those players, I say go play something that you do enjoy and won’t get killed by other players in, such as Elite Dangerous or No Man’s Sky. The rest of us will continue enjoying the game we know and love…
Except nowhere did he say “83% of general population quits due to ganking”. He did say that of the ones he ganked quit. So yes you ARE misleading.
There’s no pretending when he has numbers to back it up. You can say I’m deluding myself but you’re the one seeing things that aren’t there apparently.
If you actually had the statistics then YES! That’s another data point to add, congratulations you’re getting it.
Consider that I’m not defending anything with faux reddit logic and instead just logic…
You don’t need in-depth statistics to look back and see that we had almost three times as many players online a decade ago when EVE was much harder and didn’t have all the skilll injectors and micro-transaction bs that it has now. EVE is now easier than ever, yet it’s not bringing more players in. The launcher currently shows sub-20k numbers, even on a good day. Why is that? It’s as I stated earlier, there are many more MMOs on the market now and today’s gamer thinks that EVE is too hard or unfair.
If you are suggesting that EVE should change with the times, remove ganking, and become even easier, then you will drive away the core EVE playerbase that has supported it for 20 years, replacing them with easily-placated Gen Z gamers who are as happy as can be as long as you keep giving them free stuff…
His very next post quite literally alludes to this:
So, once again, I am not misrepresenting his position. Your obsession with railing against me is getting tiresome when I have to do the heavy thinking for both of us.
The only thing heavy you are doing is some kind of psychedelic.
Even in that post he isn’t saying the general population would be sliced 83% over time by ganking. That’s a conflation. But he Is saying that if a significant number of people are leaving by ganking that it would hurt the game as a whole. What you stated is still misleading.
Does no one read? I didn’t say remove ganking, I’ve advocated for it staying many times. Sorry but if you want eve to torture people because you find it fun, that’s not really a great way to look at the game and is also bad for it. No I don’t want high sec to be free of danger but if ganking is in a place where it’s prolific enough to hamper getting new players or retaining players then ganking is gonna need more nerfs. You call it easier, I don’t, I just call it fairer. Easy is on the side of the one doing the gank. You look on possible new or genz players with such a disdain that they might have an easier time but really it’s just evening the playing field. And that is something I do get behind. I’m not against ganking, I’m against shitting on newbies for no reason and I’m against game mechanic supported egregious imbalances that ganking might fall into. Sounds like you’re the one afraid of it not being “easy”
Is there a significant number leaving due to ganking?
On his “facts”:
He’s just taken the typical approach of assuming his assumptions are facts. The last figure we can reasonably use as an estimate of current active players is the MAU (monthly active users) and it was 200,000 not too long ago.
There’s far more than 25000 active players (maybe he means daily peak concurrent users); and if he is wrong even in his first point, then his other points are worth verifying before just accepting them.
Yes i agree i myself am “Gen-Z” (14) and alot of the younger people need instant gratification.
Bringing those in the game and making the game easier for them would make the core players quit.
You lost the argument right there. Gankers have to first scout out where you are (while constantly avoiding the faction police because you can’t stay in one spot for more than 20 seconds or so, scan your fit (which requires one of them or an alt to be uncloaked and within scan range of you), then get the group to warp to you and do their thing. Meanwhile, all the gank target has to do is simply pay attention to local and warp out, and watch their overview for any random ships entering their mining belt or mission trying to scan them or acting as an anchor for the gank fleet to warp to. It’s that simple. All you have to do in order to avoid being ganked is pay attention. But again, you have to remember who we are dealing with here. Players who would rather AFK and whine and piss and moan on the forum about it than actually play the game and pay attention.
Ganking has already been nerfed several times. Alphas can no longer gank, and Omega gankers can’t dock in anything other than a pod. What more do you want? The only remaining option is to remove ganking completely…
No I didn’t, everything just listed is pretty easy compared to so many other things in this game. As well as having no actual risk. Not to mention for targets like ventures you need only a scout to warp to and to undock and warp to them in a catalyst on the other character. But yeah it’s so hard /s
No it’s not. When he states a statistic on one side, and an opinion on the other, it’s not the readers fault if they connect the dots. I am pushing back against him trying to leverage human psychology to do so.
You accurately say “he literally didn’t claim 83% of the population”. Congratulations, you’re right. Let’s move on from that.
He claimed 83% of one ganker left and therefore a ton of money is lost. He then proceeds to talk about the whole general population of Eve Online and gee whiz what happens if they start to lose all their money. Anyone who doesn’t connect those dots is being stubbornly pedantic. You.
This is the last I have to say on the matter. I’ve granted you empathy and humanity and understanding and even agreeing with your point, and in return you’ve descended into the realm of just straight up insults now rather than earnestly and sincerely trying to understand my viewpoint.
Whatever reply you have for me (because I’m sure you have to have the last word) just know that the readers also know this and can see this toxic interaction of you just suddenly railing at me from left field and me repeatedly explaining myself at your entertainment, only to repeatedly deny me to say “no, no, nope, you’re wrong”. Take your unempathetic internet-addled brain elsewhere please.
EDIT:
Consider that the problem might not lie with everyone else.
While you’re busy answering Scipio’s question what, exactly, would you change about ganking? What do you think would “fix” it? This should be entertaining…
