A few in the past I was mostly can flipping though but that was a very long time ago. Let’s see: harder things than clicking warp every twenty seconds, a scan on an alt and then going through guns on multiple characters. Actually trying to brawl for one, especially on multiple characters with various modules and positioning, doing large fleet logi again with multiple characters, any kind of wormhole diving really, blops hunting can be pretty difficult depending on the day, mostly as the hunter, gotta figure what the fleet can hit, even figuring out and calculating production costs vs profit on mass industry is harder, lot of calculations to go through, particularly with t2.
I don’t have one and never purported to. But you know you go on being entertained by yourself.
I stated that the only remaining option is to remove ganking altogether, to which you replied:
So, what are the other options?
That’s the thing about players that whine about playstyles that they admittedly don’t partake of themselves. They think it should be changed, that it’s hurting the game, but can’t tell you how…
1 Like
I don’t know them but to think that there is only one option when there are so many avenues to explore and consider is just silly. Ganking doesn’t need to be eliminated and I don’t think it should be it serves a good purpose of destruction.
1 Like
I have done that lifestyle…a long time ago. And seeing a problem but not knowing how to fix it isn’t bad, it’s just the possible start of discussion and thought into it.
1 Like
The skills involved for example in both BLOPs hunting and wormhole diving are just the same as the ones you dismissed as simple.
warp, dscan, scan on an alt (or main) which has been made so easy alphas have no issue scanning sigs down, warp, click a module to light a cyno (for BLOPs), jump, cycle through guns, etc.
There is nothing in any of those that is difficult.
Where the challenge for all of them is, including ganking, is in the planning, organisation, picking targets, coordination, etc.
The individual mechanics are not difficult.
Okay I’ll give you that. But what about the folks that are going after ventures? That isn’t the same level of complexity
No it isn’t the same level of complexity, but neither is it the sum total of what ganking is.
No but its what people are pointing to as the problem. Noone gets up in arms about a few bil freighter blowing up. or an orca or an exhumer getting ganked save for the pilot in them and even then it depends on who it is. What might be a problem is the ease and disheartening nature of killing ventures for just the luls.
edit - and because it uses the same mechanic than the more complex ones are getting this blast of anti ganking by association.
People point at lots of things that aren’t actualy problems.
Here’s the number of Ventures killed by players in highsec this year:
| Month | Kills |
|---|---|
| January | 706 |
| February | 622 |
| March | 1396 |
| April | 728 |
| May | 718 |
| June | 475 |
| July | 713 |
| August | 655 |
| September | 528 |
| October | 761 |
| November | 666 |
source: Monthly Economic Report killdump file
That’s a mean of 23 killed each day by players, not only from ganking.
So something less than 23 ventures a day is the problem?
Last we had from Hilmar was there was about 1,000,000-1,500,000 new players per year and 90% are gone within a week. That’s around 2,500-3,750 leaving every day that are still within their first 7 days; but somehow Ventures being killed is the problem?
There are far larger problems than 20’ish Venture kills per day (not all of which are ganks, nor new players).
So people state things they want to, because it fits the complaint they want to make. But so often when they are looked at closer, it’s not clear what they actually mean, because the numbers just don’t stack up.
1 Like
You say it like thats not a decently high number, but it is. Thats alot of ventures dying each day, for a year. So yes that does sound like a problem.
It is also entirely plausible that part of that 90% is because of that and any amount that we can reduce that percentage is pretty important. So important that while there are large game problems, keeping new players should trump things.
Why dont you think that number is a problem? Like are you assuming they are just dying to rats or war decs?
If we take the low end of 1000000 multiply by .9 then divide by 365 we get very roughly 2,465 and most of another person.
If even 10 more of them stay per day that’s 3,650 more players in a year. and that’s nothing to shake a stick at.
for 10 out of 2465 per day in a year potential leavers to stay, id say thats damn worth it.
On a less discussion note, wth happened in march? lol
Thank you for bringing data into the discussion.
I’m not surprised the counterparty has made the gigantic leap of logic that a Venture killed by a player in high sec always means a newbie quits some significant imaginary implied % of the time. How many times was Venture killed by a player in high sec meant a newbie was hooked and retained? 
And I am not surprised after getting rage-pinged out of the blue over allegedly having “committed a similar fallacy”. Mote in the eye and all that.
3 Likes
So less than 1% of new players leaving and not all the kills being new players, nor ganks, is “the problem” - which is what was written previously?
That’s some very strange perspective.
Meanwhile, in Uitra in the last 24 hours, there has been 531 ships killed, almost all by NPCs and almost all of them new players. That’s just 1 starter/epic arc system. It’s similar across many of them.
New players are leaving in droves having never been killed by a player at all, and a lot more of those are killed by NPCs.
if 1% is thousands of players, yes its a problem. You can say 1% as a small number but that doesn’t mean its insignificant. And it’s not a strange perspective, it’s just looking at the numbers behind the percentage. As to the others not involved in any player kills CCP has been trying ( though we all know how a lot of their projects go…) to curb players leaving there as well. Alot with the NPE and various systems they’ve been experimenting and trying with. As well as trying to get new folks into corps and groups for better retention.
Do the math. It isn’t.
Again though, why the changed language? Before you were saying it was “the problem”.
1 Like
I just…did the math…and its a problem?..like I did it infront of you?
The problem with ganking yes. I was trying to put it into perspective.
CCP knows that the best retention mechanism for newbies is to get pilots:
- In a fleet
- To die
Citation:
CCP knows that loss is absolutely key to get new people “hooked on Eve”.
Citation:
Since CCP is nerfing PVP in High Sec, if you truly cared about newbies, you’d advocate for more ways for them to get blown up in High Sec in constructive social situations. Advocating for removal of ganking is removing the last remaining form of PvP loss available to newbies, and thus denying them this key moment entirely. Which makes it harder to retain newbies. CCP’s words, not mine. Your position of “get rid of ganking” is anti-newbie-retaining.
2 Likes