You are not a victim when a group of people decide to complete the content earlier than you would like for it to be completed. People existing and playing the game how it is intended is not griefing. It sucks when a combat site gets completed before you get to it, but you are not a victim because of it. Stop being so selfish and work around people wanting to kill the Incursion super before you.
Yes, it can be.
CCP specifically explains that killing people or âhindering their progressionâ is griefing.
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing
Something does not need to be forbidden or impossible to be griefing.
It depends. You can be. blanket statements like the previous âyou can never be a victim in a gameâ are stupid.
You can be a victim of anything that you are at loss from.
People can be a victim of me completing their site faster than they do.
You can be victim of NPC having infinite targeting range.
You can be victim of hole eviction. Of corporation theft. etc.
The term âvictimâ only means that you are on the receiving end of something unwillingly negative. It does not need to be real, thatâs a plain BS affirmation.
You all making a fuss about how people canât be victim in a game is a plain troll. They can. There are.
And in that case people are victim of mechanism abuse, which is used to deny everybody the access to content.
Poor stefnia Freir. Always the victim.
Itâs weird how they donât do anything about that.
Itâs almost like you are wrong?
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Completing content for yourself is not considered hindering otherâs progress. Rookie griefing does NOT apply to incursion runners.
What is this hypothetical situation where you can be a victim when someone else completes game content? You do NOT have sole ownership of game content, others are allowed to participate. YOU are the one trying to gatekeep here. You can be upset that people complete stuff before you doâŚbut it is not griefing or ganking. No content is denied, it just moves, keeping an incursion in a place actually could be considered abuse as it doesnât allow the systems to go back to normal for itâs inhabitants, not the other way around.
Yes but these days others want to claim the gankers badge of honour and so any ship kill is a gank now.
I often hear "damn I was ganked " his friends say oh no bad luck , when in fact what he means is " I â â â â â â up and did not scout or use d-scan and died in a pointless way "
If I was a ganker Iâd be mad others are using this pure form of PvP in this way 
Which I did not claim, read again. My claim was, that this is griefing accord to CCP.
This griefing is forbidden under specific cases - itâs still griefing otherwise.
You are the one claiming you canât, so unless you can prove it, that assertion of yours is stupid.
What is asserted without a proof, is dismissed without a proof.
But thatâs never been the issue. Read again, instead of making strawmen.
I am not. Thatâs defamation, I did not make the strawman argument you rely on.
Thatâs the issue : content is actually denied. It disappears for a day, and the next day they do the exact same thing. People just canât access the content.
THAT is what I understood OP as, as a part of a global rant from other people who canât do incursions because some people keep shooting the mom before incursion runners can access the content.
wait until he discovers that CCP released the mining crystal C-type to literally deny moon ore to other miners. Miner vs Miner griefing!
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You claim this when you are quoting from what they said about rookie griefing.
You canât prove that something doesnât exist, you only disprove by pointing to something existing.
That is what you are arguing though, or at least the people you are trying to defend.
You are by defending the actions of those who are.
No itâs not. Playing the game and completing the last site IS intended. Itâs not intended to be farmed but it does happen. The gatekeeping are those trying to prevent the completion of the last site.
They arenât unable to do the incursion though! They can and are doing the incursion just fine. They are whining because they have to move to another location and that someone else did their content. They are whining because they have to share public content. The super doesnât even spawn until the incursion is run!
Ok, itâs griefing. I agree.
Now what?
No I donât.
Therefore your claim that it does not exist is BS ?
Actually you can prove that something does not logically exist.
This only apply to logical arguments.
No.
Not at all.
And you are off topic again.
Thatâs not the case. When the mom is killed, the incursion is on cooldown before it respawns.
Exactly. It respawns. And it respawns in like 12-36 hours. Its not like it happens only once a month.
If a player feels âhurtâ when other players do legit game moves because they canât stand losing an ingame confrontation, they should simply stop playing this game. Their instant solution to stop the pain is bound to the Alt+F4 button. People who really feel RL-hurt over a loss in a videogame should seriously consider taking a deep breath and either switching to a game that is less stressful or seeking advice/help to improve their mental state. You donât go watch a horror movie and then complain if you are scared so much that you canât sleep any more⌠and suddenly itâs the moviemakers fault that you feel bad.
Making someones pixel spaceship explode is not âkilling the playerâ (aka RL-person behind the avatar), I really have to question your sanity here. Just because the ingame report is named âkillmailâ, that clearly doesnât refer to the PLAYER, but the AVATAR SPACESHIP. Are you mad?
A virtual world is just virtual, it isnât real. If you feel any kind of uncomfort or pain or whatever you canât endure, JUST LEAVE IT. If you canât deal with other players in a game, donât play multiplayer games. If you enter a virtual world to flee from the real world and see it as adequate replacement for your real world where all your real world rights and needs apply, you have a serious mental problem. Stop playing and take care for your health instead! Go out, enjoy nature, grow some skin. But be careful that you donât become the âvictimâ of a mosquito or a fresh breeze that makes you shiver. There wonât be a dev to complain to.
Youâre derailing.
What you feel like they should do in that case does not change that this can happen.
Or learn to read. Their avatar can be killed, which I wrote.
Point is, you are claiming BS when you pretend players canât be victims in a video game.
But thatâs not the topic.
You are trolling by making so many off-topic stupid arguments.
Whatâs more this is victim blaming, so even more trolling.
So what? Anything âcan happenâ. Itâs completely irrelevant because humans can âfeel hurtâ for the absurdest reasons. If you âfeel hurtâ over a pixel spaceship loss or a vanished PvE site then you have a serious mental problem, donât pretend it is an EVE problem that needs fixing. It isnât. The player simply isnât emotionally ready to play a competitive game, thats all.
Their avatar being killed is not a problem at all. The goddamn game is MADE FOR AVATARS BEING KILLED. You agree to that possibility by joining the game. And you have a huge arsenal of options to avoid it if you are just learning the game mechanics and donât be lazy. Your answer has nothing to do with my statement, again, their hurt feelings over their avatar being killed arenât an EVE problem. If there is a problem at all itâs a personality problem and it has to be solved outside of EVE Online.
No I am not, I am constructive and give helpful advice how to improve the situation for those affected. Itâs you who constantly repeats that they are helpless, that they canât do anything, that the game, the devs, the other players or whoever are somehow evil and mean to them for making the game how it is. Stop belitteling them, you do them no favor, you are the one keeping them down by constantly confronting them with a false impression of despair and hopelessness.
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so youâre off topic.
Youâre off topic again.
You are completely off topic therefore never constructive.
I did not talk about evil.
I said people who can only have fun when making other people suffer suffer from a disorder.
On the contrary of what youâre doing, Iâm not trying to impose what other people should do. Iâm saying, you canât expect to want to make other people suffer and be considered a reasonable person.
Also you claimed they canât be victim, which was BS, and I repeat that because you fail to understand what OP means.
You complain that I answer you on a forum. Thatâs hypocritical.
You could stop derailing the thread with complete off-topic arguments.
You chosing the later instead of the former is what makes you a troll.
And you canât. You are playing a game and sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. It doesnât make you a âvictimâ. You arenât a victim if you lose a pawn in chess, you arenât a victim if you get headshotted in a shooter and you arenât a victim if you get ganked in EVE online. You are also not a victim if someone doesnât answer to your Whatsapp status within 5 minutes, even if it âmakes you feel hurtâ. Your feelings are irrelevant, as long as there is no malicious act by someone against your person (not your avatar or your online groups of avatars), there canât be a âvictimâ, just a player who has lost and canât deal with that.
more spam, I see.
Yes you are.
You are victim of a gank. Thatâs the definition.
Claiming that you canât be a victim of a gank in Eve is stupid.
THAT is your point. It is BS.
Thats your definition. Which is a stupid one. The ganked ship was a target and the pilot was tanking part in a PvP game. He didnât play his cards well, didnât use his options and thus lost a perfectly legit engagement in this game. His spaceship exploded, he (the player) isnât a victim, canât be, because nothing malicious was undertaken against him (the player).
Please, answer a simple question: I suppose you know what a âShooterâ Game is. Now if I shoot someone from behind while he is equipping at a shop, is he a âvictimâ? Lets assume
- he wanted to win the game
- he DIDNâT want to be shot by me
- his avatar died to my action
- he will respawn with some equipment lost
- he âfeels hurtâ about me shooting him from behind and making him lose his equipment
Is he a âvictimâ?