I can see the tears flowing already, but you are right.
It wasn’t even ganking that gave rise to the policy. It was can baiting, back in 2007.
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Hated it, now Love it , learnt from it , makes Eve more fun …
@gankers - keep ganking
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I should’ve been more precise with the age of the accounts. It still supports my position that it is people looking to frustrate others, and not some RP or risk/reward fake reason as to why they had to implement these rules.
Still not right.
No, it’s not about frustrating others (and doesn’t provide an exclusive reason to why people gank). It’s specifically about taking advantage of the lack of knowledge of new players (not just ganking. Any exploitation of the lack of knowledge including market scams, stealing mission items, etc. in starter and career agent systems and the SOE systems), and:
And the most valuable sentence in that quote is the last one.
The last sentence was to ask players not to target new players outside of the starting systems, but ganking them in the starting systems is still strictly forbidden.
As for your other ridiculous compositional claims, I would easily take 2 orders of magnitude more players are doing it to frustrate others and not role playing. ‘Having fun’ is the goal of ganking, but you act like trying to get a rise out of someone isn’t part of the fun for them.
So quit trying to pretend that that some tiny percentage of people ganking for rp reasons somehow represents the vast majority of gankers. I’ve seen both sides of this and I know you are full of it.
Sure you would. That supports your position and it’s self justifying.
Can you post anything anyone else can verify, that actually supports that claim?
I never wrote that; and it isn’t my position at all. So that was easy.
No. It was simply asking players to help educate new players if/when they do kill them. It’s something many do; and all should.
The thing is I agree with this, but by not being honest about why people gank you aren’t helping them. If a T2 fit marauder gets ganked it isn’t because of a risk vs reward calculation, it’s because they were trying to frustrate you. If they’re ganking tanked skiffs it is only because the hull is expensive, and they think that will frustrate you.
You can give them advise on things that they may mitigate how to get caught, but the reason they get targeted is to frustrate them.
I am totally honest. I believe there is more than 1 reason that people gank; and all of them are valid. It’s not for me to say why.
You’ve gone from claiming that:
Full stop. A 100% basis for ganks in to frustrate others.
But then:
Now not just to frustrate others, but overwhelmingly to farm tears
To then:
Now it’s whatever is the percent do it for roleplay, to 2 x that amount at least.
So now, for there to be any percent above 0%, then number that do it for roleplay must also be non-zero, which itself means that it isn’t “Period. Full stop.” about frustrating others.
Now it seems where you stand is:
- some amount for roleplay
- 2x that amount at least, for frustration
- some amount to farm tears
Even your own position is not consistent, within just the space of an hour or so.
All I am saying, which
is that there are many reasons people choose to gank. EVE is too complex a game for motivations in any playstyle to be reduced to a single factor.
I’m not sure what mental gymnastics you’re doing to separate ‘farming tears’ and ‘frustrating players’ into two different groups.
An order of magnitude is when you move the decimal point. So two orders of magnitude is 100 to 1. Trying to present the 1 as reasonable representation of the composition of 101 is intentionally misleading, so I feel comfortable in saying that high sec suicide gankers are trying to frustrate players.
Period, full stop.
Yeah all good. You are correct (poorly worded on my part); and then even more crazy in the assertion.
Any proof that your view has any basis in reality at all?
None that you’ll accept.
You might find I’m actually pretty good at accepting evidence. What is usually more difficult is anyone actually presenting any.
Normally it boils down to people’s pre-conceived biases and opinions, rather than anything objective.
Opinion is fine, and all, just not always based on verifiable information.
Well, the entire burn jita event is completely to frustrate others.
I use to have a few friends in code, and sometimes I would hang out with them while they prepping for a gank and we would go out drinking afterwards.
I myself have been ganked a few times and it’s usually followed by people trying to bait you in local chat or an eve mail.
I don’t have eyes and ears in every small scale group of gankers out there, but my 100-1 is accepting that they may exist so I’ll acknowledge the point, even though I’ve never seen them.
OK, so there is no better group to explain the motivation for burn jita than Goons, since they started it:
Here are all of the Burn Jita tagged articles on INN:
https://imperium.news/tag/burn-jita/
Then specifically, looking at the very first Burn Jita, the motivation was:
The truth is that we did it because we could: we wanted to see what would happen to Jita if we hit it with all the organizational might of a nullsec bloc.
This is where, when you actually verify what you say, it isn’t as simple as just “to frustrate others. Period. Full stop.”
Even that one example, which you have claimed shows 100:1 ratio of fraustration:other reasons, doesn’t actually support frustration as the motivation.
Even the most recent Burn Jita didn’t have frustration as the motivation:
Burn Jita 2019 is dedicated to protesting botting in EVE Online
Anything else?
I was in the CFC when it was the CFC. People weren’t getting into fleets to prove anything other than how much fun it was to piss other people off.
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But is the baiting and salt collection not just a secondary activity or secondary effect of ganking , not the reason the gank had taken place in the 1st place.
Baiting and griefing happen in all parts of the game , its a part of corp wars alliance wars , trade , even mining groups in high sec do it . All to different lvls and malice but that’s down to individuals how they play it.
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None of which is verifiable conveniently; and it’s easily verifiable through your own evidence that other motivations exist. For example:
The past two Burn Jitas were organized as children’s charities, named BJ4Kids and – although the numeral no longer created a double entendre or even made sense – BJ5Kids.
So there are 3 verifiable motivations posted now that are not “to frustrate others”.
If you have the evidence, you should be now able to post 300 verifiable pieces of it that show “to frustrate others” as the 2 orders of magnitude greater reason?
and I can post several other verifiable pieces showing motivations other than “to frustrate others”.
Hello Cilla, I’ve looked through the latter posts in this thread, but I still cannot find a single clue which would help me to distinguish between a new player and a new character.
Can you help?
Getting back on track and aid in the education of new players. What about if they could see the two sides fighting in the starter systems , rather than hide them away .
Not sure how it would work but if both gankers and anti-gankers battled in the starter sys , new player would see both side fighting. They might be inspired to join one group or the other or at the least understand it more.
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Going back to when I was a new player for the second time (after a 7 year break), I don’t think I would have been aware of anything going on, outside relearning the game.
With 1.3 million new accounts last year and 12 starter systems, I’m not sure that this could do more than scratch the surface, even in one time zone, let alone across all timezones.
That’s effectively having fights running in 12 systems almost 24/7; and that kind of loss is pretty difficult to sustain. Not even in RvB’s heyday would that have been possible.
Nice idea, but really hard to implement in a significant way.
One thing that would be cool would be to make the billboards more meaningful. Have them play some of the great EVE videos like Pulse, Scope, etc. that CCP produce, as well as Rooks and Kings, Alliance Tournament videos, etc.
Have them playing on the billboards so that new players can see them in game, even before they know about them enough to go looking for them.
I’m not sure to what extent the game engine could handle streaming videos though.
Back when EVE first started, the billboards used to be much more a part of the game; and you could stop and watch the stories (all text based) that came up. They brought New Eden to life in a much more interesting way, with all of the Lore they displayed back then.
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