Garoun and Morthane: Hegemony, Rivalry, and the Federal-State Relationship

Fiction Portal Intergalactic Summit
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One day Tibus Heth was a Caldari MTAC operator.
Then one day Tibus Heth was a not-Caldari traitor at Piak and liable to be shot by Kaalakiota.
Then another day Tibus Heth was a Caldari again so he could be CEO of Kaalakiota.
Then later, on another day, after the siege at Haatomo Tibus Heth was a not-Caldari traitor again.

Considering how arbitrary being Caldari is according to the State, I don’t think anyone can tell them how to be Caldari when they cannot even decide it for themselves.

Because no order was given by President Foiritain as Commander-in-Chief at the time, to Admiral Noir.

Home Guard and State Peacekeepers killing unarmed State citizens: Home Guard and State Peacekeepers attack defenseless protestors; CONCORD intervenes too late - EVE Community

State Armed Forces destroy unarmed convoy: BREAKING NEWS - Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border - EVE Community

Home Guard Officers slit throat of workers and instigate riots: Dozens Dead In Kassigainen IV Riot - EVE Community

That’s just the cursory results of typing in the following terms “Caldari State, Kill, Unarmed, Civilian” into a galnet search. There’s probably a whole lot more if one decides to really go digging.

So yes, I do regret the loss of life of innocent civilians – even if the corporate and government agencies of the Caldari State do not.

There was a murder order given by the State Executor Tibus Heth to activate the Shiigeru’s Oblivion device and cause the deaths of billions of Caldari on the planet. As I have shown above, given the callous disregard the State has, and continues to display, as regards human life, then the belief that the State would conduct a murderous assault on the planet was well founded on the part of the Federation.

I have already provided at least three articles of Caldari State corporations and agencies in fact, sanctioning the murder of civilians – unarmed civilians no less.

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Cease your trolling, gallentean.

Didn’t they have private communication prior to the mission?

  1. Their employment contracts were terminated.
  2. They didn’t follow orders of armed security forces.
  3. It is internal State matter, and definitely not your business. Executor Heth has handled this issue as he should.

Don’t put your dirty Gallente nose into Caldari business, jaijii !

The border was closed.

Not sure what happened there, but I am damn sure it is Kaalakiota internal issue, and hope all rioters and instigators have been neutralized. And also I am damn sure that’s not your foreigner’s business.

In short, whatever you brought is irrelevant, it is our internal problem solving that is not your business, foreigner, that you won’t understand anyway, since you don’t display capability to understand even trivial facts.

Our troops acted with professionalism, unlike your, who committed tortures, genocide and murder out of hatred.

“Unarmed civilian” though sounds cute, or calling people who violated orders of security forces “innocent”. I giggled, yes. Have you considered a job of a prop comedian? I am pretty sure there are some vacancies in Jita 4-4.

I repeat for the FOURTH time, there was no murder committed by Obvlivion device.
There was murder committed by Federal guns, who pushed the Titan to fall on the planet. And if Adm. Yanala wouldn’t disarm the device, there would be way more billions dead from the detonation because of gallente attack, than from that hypothetical weapon activation.

And I mean, really… is there at least someone ELSE in here besides YOU who didn’t get it yet? That our Oblivion didn’t kill anyone, but Federals did?

First of all, it wasn’t “murder”, as I believe orders were pretty much legal.
Second, it is internal Caldari business.
Third, criminal behavior (like throat slitting) I believe pretty much was punished anyway.

Yes, my initial statemen was hastly made. Of course we have criminals and there are murder trials in the State. What I meant is that Official Caldari Army Forces do not target civilians of hostile faction, unless they display hostility by word, action or inaction. (Under inaction was implied failure to comply a direct order under the threat of a weapon).

(And yes, “unarmed civilian” is a pure gold, now half of my crew can’t stop lauging.)

Actually! Do you want to give a speech to my crewmembers? I’ll pay you standard hourly wage by Jita standards.

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On the murder of unarmed State civilians in the incidents in question it appears the State military carried out their murders did do so professionally and had no qualms carrying out the acts.

And I repeat, the objectives of Operation Highlander were to prevent its activation. The fact that the State Executor did give the order to do so, and thus seek to commit an act of mass murder means the operational goals were well founded – the Caldari State via the will of Tibus Heth had every intention to kill every person on Caldari Prime.

No, they only appear to target civilians of State citizenship and Caldari (as asserted by the corporations) descent.

As such, since the Caldari State has a displayed and continued tendency to target and kill their own people as evidenced over the years, then the continued assertion that the rationale that the invasion of Federal territory was to “protect” Caldari civilians is a lie: the Caldari State has no interest in defending Caldari civilians for they murder them constantly as it is deemed convenient – as I have shown in the articles in question, and as Tibus Heth ordered to kill all Caldari civilians on Caldari Prime via Oblivion activation on the CNS Shiigeru.

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Cease your trolling.

Excuse me for rude question, but are you an idiot?!
Because BEFORE Operation Highlander, there was literally, practically, absolutely, freaking NOT A SINGLE reason to activate Oblivion device!
It was not Tibus Heth’s intention, it was FEDERAL intention to kill every person on Caldari Prime!

It’s the same as you attack and kill security officer, who carries a gun, claiming he was about to use a gun on you! Well, he WOULD definitely use the gun on you if you wouldn’t kill him, but only because YOU attacked him.

Are you on drugs or what?..

And that’s not your freaking business, jaijii.

If we kill our civilians, it’s our internal business and if you dare put you filthy stinking gallente nose into our Caldari affair, we cut your nose off and beat you with our first grade Caldari Navy boots!

That’s what happened with your darnest fleet who dared to intervene and attack CNS Shiigeru. How many of these criminal federal scum returned back home alive? We literally skinned you down in that Operation Oblivion. Exterminated your attack force like annoying pests.

Remember, gallentean swine, that’s what happen with everone who will dare to put his nose into Caldari business. We will freaking annihilate you and send you back to stone age!

Glory to the State!

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Tibus Heth ordered Admiral Yanala to fire the Oblivion weapon at Caldari Prime, this is intention to kill every person on Caldari Prime by this act.

Tibus Heth was State Executor and thus the sole representative of the government of the Caldari State at the time.

As such, there was both intention (the order to fire) and the means (Leviathan class Titan CNS Shiigeru) to commit an act of mass murder against the population of Caldari Prime by the government of the Caldari State as represented by the State Executor.

Quite so, frankly I care very little if Caldari kill other Caldari at their own leisure, however they so may wish. I will however point out the hypocrisy and contradiction of justifying the invasion of other nations to “defend Caldari civilians” when the Caldari State as you point out, kill your own civilians as your internal business.

Looks more like the result was losing orbital control over Caldari Prime to me.

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If you’re at all interested in a real discussion on this issue, let me know. I warn you now, however, that you’ll have to do better than cite the notion that those who stole the planet are happy with the status quo.

Perhaps if you polled ALL the Caldari (both those living on the planet and those in the State) and conducted a plebiscite, you’d have a more representative sampling to base policy on?

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Firstly, the order to fire was transmitted BECAUSE of Operation Highlander. Highlander did not prevent it - it was prevented by the personnel of the Caldari Navy. The Federal Navy, indeed, provoked the firing of the so-called “Doomsday” weapon. The collective will of the Caldari People was to deny the use of the weapon, sacrifice the Titan Shigeru to the feckless anger of the Gallente Navy and then to pull down the Executor and purge his administration.

So don’t claim that the Gallente had ANY part of Tibus Heth’s downfall. I was there. I and my kirjuunen did this thing. Admiral Yanala did this thing at the cost of her life.

There was a Civil War to remove Heth and the criminals who supported him. I was there. I and my kirjuunen did this thing. We engaged the Home Guard battleships that fired on the freighters. We led the uprisings on Ishukone worlds. We supported Madam Oiritsu-haani’s return to power over Kaalakiota.

Don’t claim that the Federation had any part of protecting or saving Caldari citizens on Home. I was there. I and my kirjuunen and friends did this thing. In the aftermath of Operation Highlander, once I had reloaded my missile launchers amidst the glowing wreckage of Gallente Dreadnauts, I immediately turned to evacuating Caldari troops from the surface. I supported Madam Lagann’s relief convoy and Ishukone’s relief convoy to get aid to the surface of Home. The Federation didn’t participate - although individual Gallente citizens did.

We handled the problem. We removed our tyrant. Not you. Not yours.

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And no acts have been committed.

By on the other hand, Gallente Federation ordered to begin invasion to Caldari Prime planet, knowing that such invasion will lead to fire on the planet, and knowing that it is a direct violation of the signed treaty.
But Gallente Federation didn’t attack the titan before the invasion.
Gallente Federation waited for CNS Shiigeru to come down to low planet orbit, without attacking it.
When the ship came down to dangerous height, Gallente Federation attacked the ship, carrying multiple doomsday class warheads, and downed it on the inhabited planet.

You keep barking about what we alegedly hypothetically planned, but you can’t take responsibility for what you have actually COMMITTED.

What a shameful display!

If you still by some miracle fail to understand it, we PROTECT Caldari citizens and civilians. And we destroy the troublemakers. Your point is just ignorant.

We have destroyed more ships than we have lost.
We have killed more gallentean invaders than we lost defenders.
Keep in mind, gallentean swine: for every moros you build, we already have an Oblivion missile.
For every occupant you train, we already have forged a bullet.

We will keep killing you, in the space, on the planets, in stations. We will find you in high security space, in low security space and even in null security space. We will bring you JUSTICE in barrels of our guns and on the tips of our missiles. We will avenge our fallen comrades and will make you pay for all your war crimes and treaties you violated! You cannot stand against the might of Caldari War Machine! Your Federation is doomed to be crushed and destroyed for everything you have committed, for the threat you possess to the whole humanity.

We will keep killing you. As @MantelGlobalIndustries said in one of his speeches,
“Until there is no Gallente on Caldari Prime!”

Glory to the State!

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Some tough seven year olds you have in the State, thats for sure…

Sorry…

:sweat_smile:

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Except I never said that the Federation did have any part to play in the removal of Tibus Heth from power.

What I did say however, was that by Federal charter and constitution the Federal government has an obligation to defend its member-states from foreign aggression and interlocutors as well as to safeguard the lives and liberties of its citizens.

With the successful meeting of its objectives, Operation Highlander fulfilled the obligations and mandate of the Federal government.

In that matter, the opinions of foreign citizens of other nations remain largely irrelevant.

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Well and honourably said, Tuulinen-haan.

Your generation sets a high standard for we newly graduated pilots of the State. One that inspires us to hope to emulate such heroism.

I salute you!

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Pieter, I think you just got called old in the politest way imaginable.

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Except there were no threats to any civilians in Luminaire before gallentean aggression in form of the said Operation Highlander.

Don’t you think it’s quite dumb to create that threat and then claim you did something to remove it?
The only foreign agression that day came from Federation.
The only civilians that were threatened that day were because of Federation actions.
And it’s quite poor excuse for violating the threaty and begin “foreign agression” while claiming you are “defending from foreign agression”.

Tell me, are Federal citizens dumb to that degree to believe all that crap that you were telling now?

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Except that said members were in little danger UNTIL Operation Highlander and the only reason they didn’t become dancing ashes borne aloft by the Winds was because of the Caldari Navy.

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If you’ve embarked upon a life of service to the Caldari people, you’re already as much of a heroine as you need to be, Tauranijken-haani.

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Winds, I AM old these days Evi.

And so are you, kirjuun. :wink:

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The movement of the CNS Shiigeru into low orbit over Caldari Prime presented the threat of orbital bombardment. A threat circumvented by Operation Highlander. A threat made more pressing when sentiments such as these:

Are the majority opinions of the Caldari military and citizens of the State. When threats are made advocating annihilation and destruction of Federal civilians, do not balk when they are taken seriously by the Federation in order to safeguard the lives and freedoms of its citizens.

However, much like any bully and craven coward the Caldari State will always lash out when it feels itself most secure – such as when exploiting the opportunity presented of the failures of Tripwire and decreased defense spending by successive Progressive Administrations in their YC110 invasion – only to seek sympathy and call themselves the victims when they are tackled. When you punch the occupants of a home during an invasion, don’t try to portray yourself as the injured party when you are knocked back on to your ass.

A direct disobeying of orders by Admiral Yanala does not change the fact that given the substance of those orders being the firing of the Oblivion device aboard CNS Shiigeru by State leadership clearly shows the intention by said leadership to kill civilians en masse on Caldari Prime.

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A threat was CAUSED by Operation Highlander, not circumvented.
Go learn what are you speaking about, your ignorance is appaling, gallentean.
CNS Shiigeru moved into low orbit as a RESPONSE to planetary invasion by FEDERAL FORCES.

I was in there myself, I fought that battle. I saw what happened. Many capsuleers can confirm. Many sources will point on this. There are even feeds of mercs, hired by Federation itself that show that they were fighting planetside. How comes you didn’t know that?

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I have never contended that were Federal troops on the ground of Caldari Prime – to secure the planet from continued aggression of the SAF and protect the lives of Federal citizens once orbital security was achieved.

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It was INVASION and OCCUPATION attempt, nothing to secure, only kill and sieze what doesn’t belong to you!

Besides, you have just recently claimed that

And I repeat it one more time

This time will you be able to read it? Or I need to call a nurse who will translate it for you?

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