There was a very active market discussion section on earlier iterations of the EVE Forums.
Here are some useful links (now hard to find, if you don’t know where to look) that give you an idea of the scope of what went on in game in the early years. Unfortunately, when CCP went to this current iteration of the EVE Online forum, it seems to me, Market Discussions were an early casualty.
While this does not directly address the issue you raise, looking through the old forums and some of the player documents will give you a very good idea of why your idea has received at least some of the reception it has gotten.
No, I just believe in treating people with some measure of mutual respect. That isn’t taking things too seriously. Thats just not from a place on anonymity on the internet trying to take out the frustrations of my life on others by pretending to engage in using the forum for its intended purpose. But go ahead, walk it back further, make more excuses for the way you act. Maybe you’ll eventually convince yourself that you aren’t exactly everything we know you are from reading your other post.
Weak straw manning.
More weak straw manning, and assumption… to go with nothing but polemics.
… And… the entire history of modern markets up until now. Try more than a one liner, try picking out specific things to reply to, specific points where you think that is all assertion. Try actually saying something about what is actually said in a way that is relevant, on topic, and not a Eve Forum meme reply. You want to try and say it is about IPO scams, actually pick a specific one, and lay out how it is anywhere near this topic. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
I guess what could be cool is a stock market at jita that holds all stock info of items in the entire galaxy consolidated into single metrics in one place? Something like that. Literally off the top of my head. We already have the metrics flowing at the bottom of the screen where prices go up and down. Would there be a way to do it galaxy wide? Or seprate the metrics by empire space maybe?
Or how about indy corps register on the stock market and genuinely influence things as a competitive entity? As you’d have the day traders and the blue chip mega corps kind of thing? A bit like fw but stock market warfare?
It would take a lot of reasoning out on specifics. But sort of breaking up from Jita, to a more distributed exchange would be the ideal, like a NASDAQ. Since there isn’t high frequency trade at play here, wouldn’t be a need to co locate with an exchange matching engine of buy and sell.
More so would be the required public disclosure by a listed corp. Could be done with a mechanism like a public visible escrow account, with notification of changes below a certain threshold. Really would take some working out for how much accounting to list on an exchange would be bearable by the player base. Be interesting maybe to have NPC listed corps, like the FW ones, be a part of it, and have certain contracts like courier missions to carry out for procuring needed resources and goods. But also non-courier based contracts to help struggling markets at stations clear in a market maker role.
LOL, why do people always make the assumption my life is bad? I’m great And you are providing me much fun. Still trynna get us to raid transalpine Gaul huh?
Nope, just straight truth, which is why you’re coping out
Nope LOL.
Actually its your opinion that it correlates to this at all. You realize that right? You are presenting your opinion as truth. I am merely pointing out it is opinon, which is factual
You can sit down now Senator.
LOL and the fact you think this wouldn’t be super gameable and corrupt is just the peak of being naïve.
But yet, no points, no specifics, weak hand waving off… relating to the above.
So, how do things get developed?
An idea based on opinions and assumptions, tempered by reason and mundane knowledge, gets tested, worked out and implemented.
So given that, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? ‘Your idea, has/is an opinion, like every idea that ever became implemented is… therefore it is crap…’
No really, stop, think, look at what you are saying, because it seems to be that.
How much experience do you have, away from Eve, with banking, investing, speculation? I am genuinely curious. Because all I am reading here is Zuccotti Park rhetoric. Sure, you can call others naive, but what have you presented? ‘IPO scams bro, were a thing.’ Yeah, they were… now what is the context here? No really, just give me one thing to address and work with as some point you are trying to make, for why this is damned to be super gameable.
LOL, it doesn’t matter how much experience I have, tho I do.
Bottom line, it’ll be gameable and easily corrupt, hence why CCP isn’t gonna do it. Every MMO I’ve played with a stock market has eventually shut it down.
Hell, when Neopets had one, me and my friends farmed it non stop and made billions
Sorry bro, your idea is bad. You could do something like it, but lets face it, you’re lazy
Than, why not make a specific point than with your knowledge and experience. Pick a specific feature of such an exchange, market you feel couldn’t be worked. Is it how margins could be done? Contract definitions? Leveraging? What specifically is it? Be specific, say something other than trying to straw man and ad hominem.
Lay it out, why didn’t it work, specifically, what were you able to exploit?
More of the proof you are who we all know you are. Try and change friend. Really, it will help you be a happier person, and put down a lot of that need to try and perturb others emotionally to make up for the abyss in you, I promise, it will.
Watching market power slip from major alliances in some respects, by opening markets of speculators and hedgers from the near neo mercantilism that exist now with some elements of null sec sovereignty?
Also, with how much market PvP exist in Eve, I have to be honest, I am a bit staggered by such a statement from a CSM representative. A stock and futures mechanism would greatly add to the depth of that gameplay.
That’s unlikely to happen. The largest groups will always have an advantage, and I doubt adding some kind of futures market is going to change that.
How? Honestly, there’s almost nothing about this that sounds even remotely like it would be worth the amount of work CCP would have to do to create it. I don’t see it being something that would attract new players to the game - anybody who really wants this kind of ‘gameplay’ would be better off just putting a couple hundreds bucks into an e-trade account and doing it for real.
Thats exactly what happened in the real world with the democratization of markets with public exchange floors that futures trading brought for commodities, and stocks for wealth management. Large groups will have an advantage sure, being better capitalized. That said, unless governments step in, giants drop dead like everyone else when allowed to, and that is what happens when a large group tries to be bigger than the market despite market fundamentals reality. So I don’t see CCP doing bail outs to go and mess that up.
I think that is a touch disconnected.
More people than ever as layfolk are curious about, and are stepping into securities markets, a lot doing so by figuring out 401ks. Market, and trade simulations, with deep mechanics have been staples in many games about space, they already are widely in Eve. Yet, unlike combat, exploration, industry, and other roles, market trading and investment has gone little beyond holding commodities and market scalping.
Also, Eve is literally known as spreadsheets in space. It is constantly referenced as one of the world’s best economics lab and model due to its scale. Adding securities trading to that economic model would add a lot of value by taking that feature of it up a fold or two.
How many pages on Eve Uni’s wiki are about trading, videos on YouTube, with regular videos on it, how many people are deeply immersed when they get their hands on the MER? To say no one is interested in this game play, or it won’t attract others new to Eve to give it a try I would say is a lack of imagination for what people do find fun and challenging game mechanics to engage with.
How? Come on, be specific. Lay it on all of us, give some context for that specific example you are saying you know the slightest thing about (But don’t). Thats a one liner meme answer. It says nothing. It is like the crazy uncle who barks about ‘follow the money’ when things touch on a conspiracy theory that ruffles their feathers.
It is not a fallacy as you provide all the evidence of it.
So the history of all the market disruptors over the last century… those are all myths? That when free trade and price discovery moved to an exchange floor, and then to a digital, it democratized and prospered a huge swath of the world population? Oh, wait, I should ‘Follow the money to the Illuminati at GameStop’ right? I am stating a viewpoint for something, now if you could actually stop straw manning, and trying a cheap high school fail debate trick, of calling that a non-fact as if that is some sort of argument when discussing abstracts to keep it at a high level, and maybe make a valid counter argument other than ad hominem… But we know you won’t, because you can’t.
… You can have all the capital in the world. If you get it wrong, you burn it all, or you get a government bailout. Or did 2008 not happen for you?
Yes, yes I do, the one where in the last thirty years a billion people were brought up out of poverty largely do to market efficiencies, and free market investment in technologies. You know, like the very game we are playing, the technology used to make this forum, the food you ate today, the fuel that powers your transportation, the loads of stuff you can afford do to market forces of competition… Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah right, totally explains it all.
I don’t know why you hear voices in your head, maybe because you often find yourself alone?
It isn’t tho But I get why you trying that angle as it shreds your narrative If you were actually knowledgeable then you’d already know what we did. Are you saying you can’t figure it out
LOL and its all your opinion that any of that would occur in EVE with your idea. But you know that and its why you’re engaging in sophistry Brisc sees it too. You know what he does for a living right? ROFL.
Imagine thinking real life and a vidya game are exactly the same
I mean, you hear yourself talk right? Or type at least. You’re acting like enacting a pretend stock market in a vidya game will lead us into a new age of prosperity IRL. ROFL. And yes, people will simply Gamestop it and then CCP will shut it off as it hyper-inflates the economy LOL. Ergo its why they’ve never done it bruv
Oof the abelism. And you accuse me of ad hominem and then you make fun of mental health? And based on your age, if you don’t know who Fraiser is then yea, you def don’t got much to offer bro
I know, further demonstrating what you’re really doing.
Be specific. What about Gamestop. Come on, your just on the edge here. What specific thing about the great meme stock, in context to a PC in Eve market, are you saying demonstrates unavoidable stock manipulation. You are so close, so close, come on, get it out.
Yeah, I know what Brisc does, he is a lobbyist. Like he is a lobbyist on the CSM. Know what I do for a living? Know what other posters here do for a living? Whats your point other than an appeal to authority fallacy?
Straw man, again. Also, imagine thinking the video game is anywhere near the far greater complexities of real life. Eve doesn’t have actual faster than light physics sorted out… yet we get faster than light travel in it… But somehow, we won’t get an approximation to real world markets, despite Eve already doing so to commodities, because… reasons? Oh wait, Gamestop, yeah forgot… Uhm, what was it specifically there again?
Straw man, again. No, I haven’t been acting like any of that. I have been saying, and acting like HyperNet Relay sucks as implemented, and that a lot more of the Eve player base would benefit from a stock and a commodities market than a casino. You know, based on the fact that it happened in the real world. so we sort of have a really good model to develop our video game approximation on.
Well, I am sorry for your condition and the challenges it presents you. Perhaps you might want to consider disengaging, stepping away, and practicing some selfcare, and self-responsibility, while looking to sit down with someone and discuss a few patterns of behavior that may have gotten you to the place you are discussing being?
Engaging in forum debate? Farming you for content? Yes
LOL you already know I’m right, hence the desperation. And there’s literally no way you can stop it in your system. The null blocs capital will make it a joke ROFL.
LOL. I love how trendy logic is now due to the interwebs. I emailed my old logic prof and he is both pleased and dismayed LOL.
Bro you’re the one attempting to link real life and vidya game
In your opinion Its your opinion that Hypernet sucks
Cept I don’t have one And you know it. More abelism. Oof.
And you accuse others of ad hominem LOL. You’re the one engaging in slander and outright slurs
EVE is indeed a great economic model, but does not reflect the real world economy as many real world financial structures are built on being able to lend people value with tools to enforce people to pay back that loan. They are built on trust.
EVE is different. You can not trust a character to pay back a loan as that character can be biomassed at any time and replaced by another name. In EVE, people are temporary and scams are legal.
As such, all the financial structures from the real world that involve trust to a certain extent (which are most if not all of them I guess?) wont work in EVE.
People have set up banks and other financial structures in EVE, but these were usually if not always scams. Pyramid schemes and the likes.
The EVE hypernet, like the market, is not based on trust, they’re simple transactions which is why these do function well in EVE.
But you can’t explain your example, Gamestop, at all. You can’t even offer one sentence. You’ve said nothing. But please, I am waiting to read it, whenever you get to writing it. Why exactly would it devolve, what in the Gamestop meme trading event would matter here?
Alright.
Yes. And? CCP has humans in space, going FTL. Look they are linking real life and vidya to. And the point is?
Yes. And? it is a forum for laying out reasoning why you’d want to see an issue taken up in the CSM. Hence, near everything that goes through here, starts with an opinion.
No, actually, I honestly do believe you do. And would like to exercise patience as you make an effort to try and effectively communicate yourself. It is alright, there is no shame, just keep trying friend, be the peacock you are and learn to soar majestically.
Yes, and those would be the challenges to it. Some of it would come down to escrow usage, via extended contract system. Other mechanisms like a player derived rating, like has been done with other games such as WarframeMarket, show another way to begin at least qualitatively defining a character’s credibility.
I feel you could do the same with a stock or futures/forward instrument in Eve as well if their definition is done right.
Do I trust a player show up on delivery date with the 2.5 million Tritanium he is goanna have to sell at a loss? No that obviously wouldn’t work. If he has to have the ISK equivalent, or the physical commodity delivered by 90, 60, or 30 days to contract expiration depending on its definition, that be better, and achievable with an extension of the contract system.
For a stock, it likely would come down to the listing corp, or a player character, having disclosure requirements, to make elements of due diligence feasible. Such as cash on hand, total assets, etc.
I can understand that view. That said though, it is still a good exercise to try and present an idea for consideration to the CSM, and go over it, even if it has been addressed before.
And you are providing me much fun. Still trynna get us to raid transalpine Gaul huh?