Unsurprisingly the totally wrong premise. They didn’t have another choice in the past. You had to do something in space to get your PVP fix or else you had to log off and sulk over your own incompetence and laziness. There were lots of way available to get arena like PVP in the past that required some level of competence and player interaction with your buddies. Like Combat Recons in a medium plex with a bait cruiser or frigate.
The problem are features that remove the need for interaction to facilitate fake interaction. As the video clearly says, as EVE features demonstrate and as many intelligent and actually knowledgable people here have been pointing out repeatedly.
It will stop the draining of players who want to do things in space and bring people back that want to do things in space because more people are in space and not in instanced arenas or instanced PVE farming grounds anymore.
Besides: You probably don’t know that but initially, the PVE instances had a suspect flag in high sec for higher than Tier 3 abyssals. That forced people to run them in low or null sec. That, however, made them so unattractive to these safety- and high rewards seeking people that poison this game since the inception of instanced gameplay. CCP actually had to remove the suspect flag to make people use these abyssals at all. This made it so that people now only run them in high sec in near absolute safety instead of in low and null sec where you could spark the attention of hostiles roaming around or waiting for you because they know your activity already.
You can say whatever you want but after the first strike of removing people from open space, CCP went the extra mile and made it so that even more people would be removed from dangerous open space where their ridiculously lucrative farming could at least spark some amount of hostile player interaction that the game needs.
The problem was the easy rewards, not the lack of presence. Players being absent is a constant anyway.
You cannot shoot what’s not there, whether the players are clowning around or just not logging in at all anymore, so the stick approach just isn’t going to work.
If players don’t want to do something, eventually they won’t (MMO devs have some luxury of FOMO and sunk cost, but only up to a point).
You want PvP in a certain space, create incentives, such as passive moon mining. Forget the stick and stop worrying about players that are still in the game but just goofing around.
Wrong premise again. There doesn’t need to be a stick approach. CCP could have just introduced new content in open space, so that people could interact with it and the players in it.
You know what’s the most hilarious part about this? When CCP actually did introduce new open space content to interact with, they made it population locked so that you could lock out hostility with trivially easy methods. They mixed instanced mechanics with open space and thought people would like it. It’s absolutely ridiculous what these people think up on their island.
I’m very unsure about whether filaments overall are good or bad in this game, but one thing I do know is that in the situation you describe above the player would simply have logged off in this situation and you still wouldn’t have got the kill. At least with the filament they can continue playing therefore keeping pilots in space. It’s the same 15 minute timer and before filaments, groups like yours, were complaining just as much about people logging off.
Ah but he did log out, for an hour and a half, we knew he would log back in, we know his TZ and he was at the start of the TZ. But what is the point of camping someone you trap if they can just pop a filament, goodbye to consequences, adversity and all that.
Logging out, can’t ever recall myself getting upset about that, you have to get probes on them fast, opportunity for skilled play there, get the hit and setup for when they log in. What’s not to like about that?
We can argue about the fact that he was in 0.0 space at all was perhaps due to having filaments, you could be right there, it is likely many people would not do that if they could not use a get out of jail card like that.
However those who were gate camping entry systems have lost a lot of passing trade…
They are good in a way that stop’s people needing to roam for 3 hours, but they are bad becuase they let people be lazy and just live in jita and go straight to nullsec without having to pass low which kills the population of low sec and roaming ganks.
There needs to be a middle ground, that maintains the important strategic landscape of eve.
Filaments are not a QOL thing. They are a detrimental feature that removes player interaction for the sake of removing “unpleasant” times and interaction potential. PVE abyssals and arenas are not “some mini-game”. They flood the economy with massive amounts of ISK while requiring next to no effort to farm this ISK. The levels of income that you get from some Abyssals required supers or titans in the past that cost 10-20 times as much as a Gila and require specific actions and infrastructure to be built and kept.
These are just 2 things out of many that make EVE a worse place because they take away important gameplay aspects to accomodate players that don’t understand EVE and don’t want EVE. They just want an easy-mode space sim.
Arena is not a net positive, but rather a resource sink, so it should be fine.
I already granted that tier T5 and T6 filaments could be addressed, but the lower tiers pay peanuts anyway, so who cares.
I also granted that filaments getting players out of null and wormholes could also be looked at.
This is easy stuff for any developer to fix, but it still wouldn’t result in a game revival, whether it get cuts with a scalpel or even deleted wholesale.
This is all just small stuff, not the main issue with the game.
Yea CCP needs to release content for now then come back and fix this stuff. But their new content needs to have this thought already implemented so itself does not need to be fixed after.
That is besides the point and not what this video or the entire argument is about. You could have the most ridiculously powerful resource sink in the world. If it does not involve player interaction in the open world in a game that prides itself with its massive open world and open world interaction of its players, it is still a bad thing and it will remain a bad thing regardless of how much you “fix” it. That’s the entire point. This resource sink removes player interaction from the open world and that is a bad thing.
Well, sometimes its just boring, not unpleasant. Boredom is not only unpleasant, its repelling.
It so bad it would make you do UNPLEASANT THINGS and if the pain would be the only reward you get, you will do it to not feel bored. Scientifically proven.
There is other ways to achieve this thou, such as what I hope this new FFW update brings so that people live in a place where they can find content on their doorstep. Can’t expect to live in jita and find content in 3 minutes that’s unrealistic and ruins the game for other people.
To rely on being removed from known space to find that content seems weird.
It’s like putting duct tape on a cracked mug and saying it works why change it.
Oddly enough I appear to have the exact opposite opinion on filaments to you. I’m sure that they haven’t massively changed how players react while camped into null sec pockets, as players would have simply logged off, and I actually like the fact that they bring players out into null to roam. When I was in null I enjoyed filamenting across the cluster and hunting filamenteers in the local area.
But I dislike what the lack of traffic has done to Low Sec areas and while I never liked passing through low sec gate camps, they did make the area feel more alive and provided opportunities for conflict. This for me is the big downside of them. Especially the ability to filament from null into Pochven and then straight to High Sec which does not seem to fit in with the otherwise random nature of filaments.
Don’t forget that this is in the context of adversity and challenge. And as I pointed out the person did log out, several times in fact and for over an hour and a half, but in the end was forced to pop the filament, removing adversity and a challenge. I know I am playing a little with words, here, but here we have the issue on getting the balance right, as I said it is complicated…
Any MMO worth saving should be able to handle players merely not doing what you want them to do.
Hell, if somebody just wanted to stay docked up all the time, I’d still let them.
Funny that you mention saving the MMO. Ever since CCP started to introduce these “convenience” features and started to make EVE “easier”, the character numbers started to drop hard and continue to do so.