Griefing?

Hello, I am a newer player and I have a question. Within a couple weeks of starting this game I joined a corporation. Me, like many other who joined this corp were rookies. Low skill point, first time guys. Shortly after, we began receiveing the usual war decs a rookie corp gets, and they were manageable at first. The corp may have made a mistake by setting a structure down too early, causeing unwanted attention by others. The new war dec mechanics hadn’t been implemented yet, so just removing it wouldn’t have been an option at that time. Anyways we received a war dec from a small alliance that began attacking new players in the corp, blowing up ventures etc etc. Eventually we began trying to fight back but 26+ rookies were not enough in cheap t1 frigs to stop this guy and his army of alts. He would fly into our home system, cloak up in an alt, and just set afk literally 24/7. He’d then bring in his main and fly around blowing our ships up. The usual. But the things that began to get annoying were when not enough of us were online we’d set docked in a station waiting for more to log in he would incessantly tell us he won’t stop until all of us uninstall the game. He’d begin using 15 or so alts to mail members individually saying we should uninstall, I think he sends about 10 applications a day to join our corp from some of his alts. Anyways after 2 weeks of that annoyance we were contacted by a null alliance and joined them. Before the move we had one last battle with him, we had our usual noob fleet out trying to fight him, i think maybe 10 or 15 of us, he was in a machariel. He brought in 2 of his alts not in the corp so not at war with us and began using them to rep, then everyone docked up including him. We sat for a bit and there was the usual trash talk, then everyone undocked. A bad call by the Fc had some of the rookies target the alts repping him and half the fleet got concorded. Im not sure how the mechanic works, if they are suspect can I shoot them? Unsure about the mechanics and so were many of us rookies. Anyways, we moved about 50+ jumps to null shortly afterwards thinking we’d get away from this guy. Within 3 or 4 days of the move here he is again in our new home system saying how “naughty” we all were for not asking permission before we left and that “we should have just uninstalled the game” instead of moving away. Now he camps our gate with a slippery pete tengu. And even though we are now in an alliance he doesn’t shoot at or attack any of the other members except our corp. Only us. When we get a mixed group of different corps in a fleet he will only ever shoot those in our corp during fights. What do?

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Well mate that kind of people really are sick, and should look for help. Maybe the girls just don’t like him who knows. But the new wardec mechanics are allready in effect, so move to hisec again, and you guys will be RELATIVELY safe. Also mind to post the name of the griefer?

This is hilarious. My first suggestion is to try to appreciate the humor in the situation. Then we can look at where you went wrong and how to recover.

Ok, there are players (like me, for example) who enjoy hunting and killing other players for sport. There’s nothing wrong with this. It’s an open world PvP sandbox and this is part of the game.

You attract more attention from this sort of player when you grow to a certain size in highsec (say 30+ or so), when you live in a high traffic area (near trade/mission/mining hubs), and under the new mechanics, when you anchor a structure.

The aggressor in these situations depends almost entirely on having one or more alts in your corporation. You can minimize the odds of this happening by having recruitment standards. Do a thorough background check on all prospective applicants. Interview them and keep an eye out for any inconsistencies.

But of course, for you, that ship has sailed. Your corporation is already riddled with spy alts. The honorable pirate (you can’t call us “griefer”, that’s our word) knows your every move.

You have a few options. Moving across highsec is one, but you already tried that. Some of us will follow you, most won’t. Move to lowsec, nullsec, or ideally a wormhole. Again, he may follow you. Wormholes have the advantage that you can hide the location from your own members and selectively disclose it only to those you trust.

If all else fails, admit defeat. This is a competetive PvP game and there’s no shame in losing a war. Either pay him off or disband your corporation. Congratulate him on a good fight, and move on with your lives. No corporation is entitled to success - more fail in this game than succeed, and it sounds like he got you pretty good. You can always try again - start a new corporation and invite your members back in (contingent, this time, on a thorough background check).

As to your question on suspect flags - if he was getting neutral reps in highsec then his logi was suspect flagged, which meant that you could legally attack them. So if you got CONCORDed you must have done something else. Good for you for trying to fight though.

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On the one hand, it does sound like its bordering on harassment, so I would petition CCP.

But on the other hand, this seems like it’s more than just rookie griefing. Has the CEO done something to this guy? Most people won’t go this far just for newbies. My instinct is pretty good on these sort of things.

To be honest, you should just leave Corp and join a Corp in your alliance. If you truly have no recollection as to why this guy is targeting you, then it’s probably your CEO who f*cked up but is too proud to tell you or apologize/make amends.

Bring it up with alliance leadership and arrange for everyone to be moved to your alliance Corp, then have the CEO and his Corp removed.

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It isn’t harrassment. You can’t harass a corporation, you can only harass an individual. Nope, this sounds like good old fashioned war.

Likely he wardecced them on a whim, then found that they make such entertaining targets that he decided to continue. Maybe he has some “victory condition” in mind, like them paying him or disbanding their corp, or maybe he doesn’t. Either way it’s all fair play.

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Since you didn’t bother reading his entire post, I’m not surprised you missed this.

Hes not asking for money or anything, hes telling them to quit. That doesnt sound like someone who wants isk or is looking for an end game.

And yes, if hes targeting players, then he is harassing the players and not the Corp.

2 Likes

This sounds a bit like someone either being or role-playing a maniac.

If it’s harassment, griefing or simple use of pvp mechanics, I can’t tell. I don’t know enough about it.
But if he tells other people to “uninstall the game” this sounds to me like something CCP would not want. So my recommendation is to gather screenshots of the things said in chat. Also make screenshots of the EVE-mails and applications received.
As I read it here: https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/terms-of-service-en/

sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or support tickets

This may already be seen as a violation.

Good luck.

I did, in fact, read the entire post. OP said he sent the members of the corporation an evemail saying they were “naughty” and should uninstall rather than move, you are correct. However, OP did not say that he wasn’t asking for isk. Nor did he say whether they had made any effort to offer isk or assets for peace.

We both read the post. I’m just making an effort to read between the lines - since obviously OP isn’t telling us the whole story.

As for the eve-mails, it is a common strategy to send mass eve-mails to your enemy corp members, both as an intimidation tactic and a way to fish for a surrender offer. Sometimes the “official diplomats” of the corporation are being hard-headed about paying ransom, but some random line member will go ahead and do it. You never know unless you open the lines of communication to everyone. As for the “you should uninstall” stuff, that’s just standard flippant smacktalk.

None of this sounds remotely like harassment to me. Sounds more like an average Thursday in New Eden.

If you had read his entire post, you wouldnt have told him to move to nullsec.

Because you wouldve already known, he moved to nullsec.

Sure, but the thing is, we talk in the moment, we dont continuously tell people to quit the game, especially brand new players.

You’re just assuming the worst of this fellow, who I am sure has been conducting himself in a civil, non-harassy manner. OP never said anything about “continuously telling people to quit the game”. He just said there were some EVE-mails sent. Nothing wrong with sending a few EVE-mails.

Frankly I think we need the court of C&P to hear this case. We need to get the other side of the story before we rush to judgement. Or at least, OP should name some names so we can look into it.

This is, in my eyes, a clear case of harassment; i would absolutely recommend dropping a petition on this subject, you can do that here.

The aggressive party goes out of his way to target a corporation and it’s member by writing to individual players, telling them to uninstall, even after the corporation moves he then follows shortly after and continues his aggressiveness (harassment).

3 Likes

I think you could petition. The attacks are not harassment as such, but the constant mail spam etc might cross the line. It’s borderline but CCP decides where the line is, not forums :wink:

You cant say “not continuous” and then say “Some”. You do realize that multiple emails is continuous, right.

con·tin·u·ous

/kənˈtinyo͞oəs/

adjective

forming an unbroken whole; without interruption.

“the whole performance is enacted in one continuous movement”

If I send one evemail to my wartargets every 24 hours, that’s not continuous, because I stop doing it for 24 hours at a time. Perhaps English is not your first language.

It is absurd to suggest that sending regular mass eve-mails to your war targets constitutes some form of harrassment. Spamming them every 5 minutes, maybe. But then, they can just block you if they want.

This absolutely does not sound like harrassment, even if you assume that OP is telling us the whole story in an unbiased manner. Following an individual player relentlessly across multiple areas and/or corporations has always been the standard of what constitutes harrassment in these situations.

Corporations are not people, Mr. Romney, and corporations have always been fair game in EVE. If I declare war on Pandemic Horde, and follow them across nullsec, relentlessly targeting their members, nobody would ever consider that harrassment. OPs corporation, whatever it may be, is subject to the same standards.

Also consider that it is highly unlikely that OP is giving us an unbiased account of events. This sounds suspiciously like typical carebear-whinging to me. And if there is one thing that experience has taught us about whinging carebears, it is that they often invent stories to imply that their aggressors may be breaking the rules.

Unless he names some names, so we can verify his story, we have to assume there is at least a 50/50 chance that he is full of ■■■■.

We also must assume that it is unlikely he is even a new player, so really this thread belongs in C&P, where the regulars are more qualified to discuss such matters and arrive at a fair ruling.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/continuous

  1. being in immediate connection or spatial relationship:
    a continuous series of blasts; a continuous row of warehouses.

By your definition, it is impossible to ontinuously tell people anything. After all, writing up the mail takes a few seconds, and you stopped sending an email for a couple seconds at a time.

What a stupid argument to make.

But thats 5 minutes of not sending an email. How is that continuous?

See how ridiculous you sound?

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You’re splitting hairs over vocabulary. It’s obvious, unless OP can provide evidence otherwise, that this is all in good fun. You seem determined to find harassment where there is none.

Indeed, seeing as OP has not returned and has provided no evidence whatsoever, I have serious doubts as to whether any of this even happened. OP clearly isn’t a new player either.

No, im not trying to find harassment where there is none, i even said in my original comment, that this only borders on harassement.

The problem i have is that youve failed at every step. You claim to have read the entirety of OPs post, yet have demonstrated that you havent. Youve made some severely poor arguments. Just cause im calling you out on them, doesnt mean i have some sort of secret hidden agenda or something.

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This personal insult is extremely offensive, and also disrespectful of people with developmental disabilities. One might even call it…“griefing.” You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Flip the script on him.

He can only do this because he knows the mechanics of the game better than you do. Get help from your alliance to destroy him over and over. afk cloaky-camping is an issue that has been around for a long time but you can (well…your alliance can, or should) make things not appealing for him. If your alliance can’t or won’t help you…join another alliance that will.

Don’t go back to highsec. In 0.0 security you can shoot him without any concern about him using the game mechanics to get you blown up by the CONCORD police.

Never give up, never surrender. Millions of isk against him, not .01 isk in tribute.

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