Have you seen Salvos, or Teckos?

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How are USSR/China not communist systems?

You are confusing capitalism with exchange or distribution of equity, which occurs in all systems.

At its core, capitalism refers to private ownership of the means to wealth, rather than them being owned by the state/society.

You dont understand the terms you are using.

PS: Its “communist”, not “comunist” as you repeatedly misspell.

Not sure, because there never was a communist system, just socialist states who wanted to reach the goal of communism. In those socialist states there was trade, externally they were forced to do state-capitalism and internally they translated that into a communaly-run companies.

It depends also on the time and specific state. In Vietnam they introduced open markets not long after the war, etc.

Looking back I think the main problem was that the basic principles of communism haven’t been realized in any of those states, be it to outside pressure, world war, being under developed and mostly because they didn’t focuss enough on building a consistent and true democracy.

On the bright side, the 80+ years of socialist states put the capitalist states under a lot of pressure to appear more humaine, show their nice face and introduce somewhat socially acceptable laws. This time has gone and we all saw the backlash. Now it is back to everyone hating everyone, the exploitation becoming more ruthless by the day and crazy religious zealots, right wing avengers and i-dont-give-a-■■■■-nihilists are much more common.

Let’s see how long this will last.

p.s. if you want to get an idea of how culturally different these attempts at socialism were, you should go ahead and compare films from soviet union and yugoslavia (especially Makavejev).

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China is not communist but authoritarian now.

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And the USSR died in 1991

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This has to do with the specific role the communist idea played in many Asian countries. They used it as a unifying idea to get rid of outside occupants (western countries), while managing to introduce industrialization by mass mobilization of the people. Sadly they didn’t manage to get rid of old and overcome models of authoritarian behaviour, but this is actually true for all states everywhere.

Some might argue it died long before that, at the moment when it stopped being the “Union of socialist soviet republics”. Soviets were not really existing after Lenin died, which is kind of bad for a system that is completely based on them.

How did we get to communism btw? :joy:

I want your favorite BBQ recipe

Also, Gaz or charcoal BBQ?

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Raw thick steak, 1-2 minutes each side. No sauce necessary.

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Mao’s industrial revolution should be taged as mass murder. People were melting pots for metals.

another authoritarian country rised up, with Stalin in charge.

China is in transition.
When we talk about communism/socialism/capitalism they involve both issues of ownership and how representation is selected.

Despite the myth, communist systems are democratic in terms of representational selection. They are voted into their position by a majority.

True, China basically voted to give life tenure to President Jinping.

Many US persons, especially, seem to have trouble understanding that.

An example:
Finland is a constitutional parliamentary socialist democracy.

The constitution sets out the rules for the function of state

All political representatives, from Parliament to the President are elected democratically by the people.

The socialist aspect occurs in that the state owns or has majority stake in many municipal systems which all of society needs, such as healthcare, roads, ports, railways, airports and domestic airline, water, energy, telecommunications etc.

This ownership waxes and wanes.

The difference between capitalism and socialism, is whether its private or state owned.

The difference between socialism and communism, is the extent of state ownership (state in the communist system, being a representative of the public, in ownership of that).

When the USSR fell, huge stacks of previously state owned equity became privatised, ie: Russia became a capitalist state, at least in part.

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unless votes are not in favor of “the one and true communist party”. Guess what then happen? Communism was raised by violence and held by one. Until citizen were brainwashed.

There may not be many parties, but the representatives are nonethless voted in by a democratic majority.

Even in China, there are factions within the “one true party”, which although not in name, have different views. Progressives, conservatives, etc.

US, for example, really only has 2 parties, whereas Finland has ~6 parties.

I was refering to communism. Voting will “always” go right for communist party. Communism ruled every part of their citizen life, even their votes.

They called themselves CCCP. USSR was the English abbreviation. When we drop one of the Cs then we’re back on topic by the way!

As I added above, even in a one party systen, there are factions/nominees with different views.

Currently in China, the old guard has been largely deposed by progressives.

Though they are all in the same party, does not mean their views are identical, and they are elected to represent via a democratic majority of either the public or their party peers.

Or if you drop the P you end up with the Crayola Crayon Company (is it officially called that? Lol)

That is in cyrilic and Russian.
In English and latin alphabet, its USSR

In English it’s simply Soviet Russia

So when does voting ever go wrong for any of the capitalist parties?

Funny enough the english abbreviation for Chinas Communist Party and our game company are the same… tinfoil hat anyone?

LONG LIVE CCP MAO!

Which isn’t accurate though, since “Russia” was only one of the many republics the USSR had.

It’s much more complicated than that.
The USSR was long accepted as the strongest economical and political leader in the socialist world, but decade after decade things changed. First you had Stalin die and subsequently Mao demanding a leading role, which USSR was not happy about and which lead to a separation of China and USSR. Then as you mentioned there was Tito, but also Irak and Syria who separated themselves from Soviet Union in the 80s (if I’m not mistaken with the years), African socialist countries having difficult relations with USSR at some points, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc.

No doubt that there attempts of the soviet leadership to gain more influence on others, but apart from its direct neighbors this didn’t work so well. Despite 1968 in Czechoslovakia, the people there continued to be culturally independent, the opression attempt did not work.

There are no free elections under Capitalism. You can only vote Capitalism.

falsification of elections is a fact behind the iron curtain, especially after WW2 so I have no idea what you talking about when you wrote democratic majority. All countries under soviets influence zone had puppet goverments approved by Moscow. Look what happen in 1968 in Czechoslovakia. Only Tito made his own politics.

not to mention: Hungary 1956, bloody uprising smashed by tanks.

Capi… what? Under the Big Soviet Brother? Shirley, you joking! :smiley: First free elections in Poland after the war, were in 1989.