Help us helping you, CCP. Make Mining Drones stop mining when losing target-lock

Why? Because CCP have made it clear thye want to combat afk gameplay and that’s a way to help us helping them. It’s not much, but it’s far more than what we can do now to combat especially whole fleets of Orcas.

Everyone reading this should be reminded of the fact that CCP wants to get rid of afk gameplay. No matter what kind of reasoning and arguments you can come up with in favour of achieving something in the game without actually playing, (*breathes in*) it won’t help you in any way or form and thus I’m simply going to ignore that. (*exhales*)

As I’m not willing to spend a significant amount of time dealing with predictable responses, I’m going to cover a lot of ground in this one single post. If you don’t bother reading through it, then so be it, but rest assured I’m not going to bother with responding. Put some effort into your posts.

“Why should we help CCP?”

Why not? I see no reason not to and you’re not required to. Others want to. Why not let those, who want to, do so? It’s content for people who play and it’s content against people who don’t. Why should I not do that? He’s not playing, while getting rewarded for not playing.

CCP doesn’t want that, I don’t want that and plenty of others don’t want that either!
BOOM, what an opportunity!

“But they’re just AFK, why not leave them alone?”

  • Because they’re not playing the game while getting rewarded for it.
  • Because CCP agrees that that’s ■■■■■■ up.
  • Because it bothers people who actually play.
  • Because it is being pushed beyond acceptable limits.
  • Because mining (actually: the gathering of resources) is the single most important thing in this game and it’s being mostly done by people who don’t even play.
  • Because CCP Hellmar himself dreamed up a scenario about competitive mining and, no matter how that materialises, it is clear that mining afk is not going to be a thing he wants to support.

“BUT MY PLAYSTYLE REEEEE”.

Ignoring that this argument is a fallacy: Ever after the stretch required to think of gameplay as “individualistic playstyles” it’s still not a “playstyle”. When you’re not interacting with the game you are, by definition, not playing. If you don’t understand what “by definition” means then look it up and don’t bother trying to weasel yourself around this.

“You’re just an asshole.”

You might be an RMTer! Guess who has the biggest benefits of AFK gameplay? RMTers! Who has the biggest reason to oppose everything that works against afk farming? RMTers! Who will be the ones screaming loudest? The RMTers!.

“No one bots/RMTs highsec income.”

They only need to put in a minimal amount of effort and n weeks later sell their ■■■■. It doesn’t matter if they don’t make a lot of ISK in highsec. What matters to them is that it makes them money.

Smart people don’t think “i want to make thousands of dollars, otherwise why bother”. Smart people think “this stuff helps me lowering my cost of living”. As long as it nets them a profit, they’re be happily doing it. That’s a normal part of an economy: There’s a few who are super professional, making millions, and there’s also tons of small fries who just want some extra income.

While I actually feel sympathy for “the little guy” (it is, in the end, a smart thing to do), they’re free to ■■■■ off into some other game where I don’t care about them doing it. Try a game made by Blizzard. They earn billions already and they’re assholes anyway.

“TL;DR?”
Sure. TL;DR:

I hereby request having Mining Drones stop mining as soon as the ship loses the lock on the roid. That way there is an actual thing we can do. There’s a cheap and accessible opportunity for dealing with fleets of bricktanked Orcas who are all protected CONCORD.

Without this change, people are being forced to completely commit themselves to the task, risking burning out, while all the Farmer needs to do is looking at the client every now and then. Time is in his favour, not in the actual players’. He earns ISK while barely doing anything and the actual player earns literally nothing for putting a lot of work and effort into it.

“You lied about that TL;DR!”

Yes, I did. If you can’t read through this then you have no business around here. You can gank them once, or twice, or thrice, but while he gets insurance paid out, you don’t. You still have to pay for all those ships, the modules, the rigs AND all the characters needed to pull it off assuming you don’t have friends stupid enough to throw literally billions at a completely lost cause, while the asshole gets insurance, can start again within minutes (with your chars being forced to wait fifteen) and you’re losing ISK, time and spirit.

There is no sane way of dealing with those guys.

“I give up. So why this specifically?”

Because it’s a low cost/low effort thing to do, while also giving people both the feeling and the ability that they’re actually able to do something without having to commit their lives to it. All it takes is an alpha, an ECM frigate (low skill, low cost) to jam the Orcas once. People will figure out if it’s a bot fleet or an afk player and react accordingly. CONCORD can come all they want, the Orcas are still losing target lock. It’d be cheap and it’d be effective. It’s also significantly more than can be done now.

“There’s too much text in this post. Why is this effective?”

Because, if he’s truly AFK, he’ll be losing more money than you, especially when it’s a whole fleet of Orcas. If he isn’t AFK then he’s actually there, which isn’t optimal either, but it’s still better than him earning money afk. Suicide jamming is cheap and low effort, yet it’s still infinitely more effort than mining AFK.

If he’s a botter, then his bot will re-target the roid, of course. A real person is going to be pissed and will start talking to you, but a bot won’t. A bot talking in local will just make himself look suspicious. They won’t actually be able to have a conversation with you, which is something you will definitely be having with a real person, even if he’s just throwing insults at you.

He will be reacting to what you say, so that’s fine. I can tell. I’ve pissed off plenty of afk alarm-clock miners (morons mining solo in skiffs, so i mine their roids to beat them to the ore). In the end they all bite, no exception so far. Anyone who doesn’t ever react at all gets reported.

“You’re wrong, we can already deal with them.”

No, we can’t really. There is literally nothing that can be done to beat his efficiency. Dealing with them right now is barely accessible and not even remotely worth all the ISK, time, effort and spirit required. It’s significantly more accessible to roll an alpha, skilling it for ECM and throwing him onto the Orcas.

Considering that it’s not a secret that these fleets exist, giving the players not only the feeling that CCP acknowledges the problem, but also giving them the feeling that they can do something about it, is a huge plus.

“You can already smartbomb the drones efficiently.”

You’ve never actually tried doing this, otherwise you’d not be writing it.


It is illogical to argue against players who legitimately complain about being out-competed by someone who isn’t playing at all. Legitimately. A whole fleet of brick tanked, untouchable Orcas is unacceptable.

CCP. A first step.
It’ll make people happier.

You already did a crowd-pleaser by changing warp speed and warp-deceleration,
I really don’t see why you can’t put in another crowd pleaser,
especially because it doesn’t affect active players at all.

Which is the biggest reason why anyone complaining is actually rather suspicious.
An active player can just re-lock the roid.

Help us helping you.

Thanks!

PS: At least half of you people didn’t manage to read through this post and jumped to the end instead, which is why it contains bait to make sure people with short attention spans are being caught and, hopefully, shamed appropriately. A good portion of you also stopped somewhere in the first quarter to immediately start replying. Shame on you as well.

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Whilst not my preferred way to tackle the afk orca, it’s technically sound. Easy to do and has minimal effect on non-afk players.

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Thank you. :slight_smile:

Last I checked, CONCORD doesn’t protect it punishes. Turns out, its the fear of CONCORD and your lack of effort to destroy an Orca that protects them. Just because it has a massive hitpoint bar, doesn’t mean it can’t die. Its not immortal FFS.

Hell, destroying the drones alone using an atron with blasters will prevent an Orca from mining until they are replaced. Player comes back, NO ORE IN HOLD. All at barely a million isk, 2-3m per Cat x number of players if you bring friends.

How ganking is done

And that’s crazy solo against a freighter, with similar hitpoints.

Funny though, with all number of whining people about Orcas and drones you would think their combined effort could solve the issue in game with a fleet of catalyst. I mean, that is emergent game play and far easier than bitching about a problem you perceive when CCP might be perceiving it as “Hey, the ship is undocked, just make friends in this MMO game FFS and shoot the damn thing. CODE does it, why can’t you?” . CCP did give the Orca drones and a mining bonus, doesn’t care if the player is AFK so long as it isn’t automated, and it being a sandbox they are probably wondering why you can’t destroy another player. Its not a brick tank, its just a problem and you have to solve it; hint lots of cheap destroyers and plenty of friends…Orcageddon anyone?

Its not that I support AFK, its the whining about a problem and the lack of effort to deal with it yourself. The player isn’t there, you think he is gonna respond quickly? Nope. But if you stopped fearing CONCORD, brick tanked Orcas can die just as easily a titan and the chaos that follows is why I want to see the player deal with the problem.

If you got an hour, watch this. Its about freighters and Kusion is upper left, but Orcas have just as much hitpoints and capable of an active tank, throwing enough DPS at it will kill it regardless. It will give you some insight, maybe change your mind. You just have to get over the fear of CONCORD, be willing to lose isk and sec status. You would be surprised at the mayhem you can do, so long as you are willing to do it; nothing wrong with carnage and destruction.

Ugg, too many words. Just try to solve it yourself instead of running to Mommy CCP and asking for a band aid. Its just gonna lead to another perceived problem about “riskless blah blah” when it only requires enough DPS to overcome it.

Oh, and alt detected with fake pixel face in a virtual world that doesn’t exist. Won’t name them though :smirk:

Wow, that’s the single most desperate attempt made by a Farmer that I’ve ever seen.
What a wannabe. :roll_eyes:

I really do know I shouldn’t… after all they say ‘don’t feed the trolls’… but here goes anyway…

Cept they’re not, had you read the OP I’m sure you’d be aware of this.

Cept they do, see:
“While this activity does not necessitate the use of a 3rd party program in order to carry it out you ARE generating income in an automated fashion while sleeping which is not being present playing the game.”

That’s from here

Just out of morbid curiosity are you a Kusion alt, by chance? I’ve never heard of him but you seem to mention him in every post you make? Guess you could just b a fan boy…

LOL, this is EVE guy, one thing I’ve learnt is that if you run off to Mommy CCP often enough & loud enough you will eventually get what u want!

Cheers,
Cypr3ss.

The problem with afk mining is that there is not enough incentive not to afk mine, at least not in highsec, where only threats to afk miners are gankers and, lately, triglavians. And introduction of triglavian fleets in belts didn’t make mining more rewarding, it’s more likely that a portion of highsec miners just stopped mining entirely (not that highsec miners give menaningful contributions to economy). If CCP wants to put an end to afk mining (I don’t think they do, it’s just that it’s hard for them to detect a difference between a bot and real miner who checks his Orca or Rorqual every hour or so), they should rework mining and make it less passive, or at least make ice rocks not over 100,000 m^3 in size.

Precisely what I think when I offer my serious opinion and instead of providing any useful input of their own they focus on flaming at me in the forums as if this was going to somehow help their argument of arguing against the topic in general.

Say anything about Bots and RMT in these forums and you get a wave of explosive emotions in here. If they got nothing useful to say it makes you wonder what are they looking out for so intently in these forums if they are just going to attack whatever opinions present an issue to their interests.

They are probably just trying to make sure they stay on track to any anti-bot and anti-rmt efforts so they can pull the plug and burn their bots to try and cover up the bread crumb trail before CCP gets onto them when someone talks about a way to deal with these types of “players?” if you want to call them that.

Either way, bots/rmt or not it doesn’t look good if you literally got nothing to say but crap as an excuse to say anything when your thoughts and comments are directed at the people in the thread and not the actual subject matter in any constructive way to discuss it.

An interesting idea and I applaud your desire to help reduce the effectiveness of AFK gameplay, but I have to oppose it for one simple reason:

Why should the targeting mechanics of mining drones be any different than the targeting mechanics of other types of drones?

If this change were to seriously happen, I’d say that it would have to happen for ALL drones, not just mining drones. And, while that could actually work out to help de-power combat drones, I think that’s an awfully large step to take and would require a lot more thought and evaluation before implementing. It could help reign in drones, or it could break them completely.

So, I’m not technically giving you a -1, I’m giving you a “Take this idea and go further with it.

Sorry I guess I don’t AFK mine enough.

So right now, when an asteroid is depleted the drones move on to another asteroid without a command or target lock?

IM guessing so. I know that salvaging drones do the same thing when they are left to run on their own (As long as wrecks are in range) It must be a mechanic which applies to all drones

Then a definite +1 on the idea, and pertaining to what @Bronson_Hughes wrote, if it has to be fair then fine, make the change for all drones.

Guns don’t switch targets without a lock, neither should drones.

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They will keep mining the same 'roid regardless of whether the player’s ship has a lock on it or not. They will not move on to another one once the one they’re mining is depleted; there is no “aggressive” setting for mining drones.

If I’m reading Solecist Project’s post correctly, they want to be able to suicide ECM a group of AFK Orcas to disrupt their mining drone operations instead of having to gank them all.

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The drones do not switch targets. The user has to lock a new target long enough to issue the command to a mining drone to mine a particular asteroid, and after that the lock is no longer required. You will need a new or existing lock on another asteroid, though, once that asteroid is exhausted.

The moon mining and ice asteroids are so large that switching target is not required in those cases making the act of locking a new target less relevant to a miner in high sec, and the op wants there to be more incentive to pay attention to your locks than there presently is.

To be completely transparent, I am against multiboxing and tend to favor changes that make it harder, but I am not concerned with it so much outside of high security space where NPCs enable it instead of player effort. I still lean towards decreasing the penalty for shooting mining drones from criminal to suspect like MTUs, but I think any change to highsec that puts a relative newbro in a good position to affect this kind of careless target is probably going to be a good one. There are alternatives to drone mining that are effective and still only require you to check in every few minutes. I don’t think it’s a huge ask to make drones a little more complicated than a completely hands off activity after issuing one command. If we can make the penalty for this a player enforced one, so much the better.

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No. But what you can do with mining drones is lock 5 different rocks and set one drone on each.

With the size of moon belt rocks and ice blocks you will never have to make another lock or switch rocks for several hours.

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I think I’m doing really well mostly not participating in this thread. :blush:

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Indeed.

How can you not outmine them? They are afk?
Should gank alts be removed because they are just overpowered drones?

Almost forgot this thread. Damn.

I’ve lost my keys.

*looks around*

Thought I might have dropped them here, but apparently didn’t.