I didn’t realize PvP ships are unable to enter PvE sites.
Which is where? High, low or null? Just asking.
OK, so you have considered it.
Then you need to decide whether ‘expected profit’ - ‘expected loss’ is worth while or not. If not, can you change any thing.
When you loose a ship or 2 then you tally them in the costs of running column. Learn from the experience, shrug your shoulders and move on.
Much of the PvE in this game will still turn a good profit even taking regular losses into account.
PvP and PvE fights are very similar. The main difference is that PvE is 100% predictable so you can fit the minimal necessary tank and ignore tackle to optimise your damage for better ISK/hour.
Fit your ship for your specific circumstances. People often forget to take possibility of PvP into account for their PvE ship fits, which is a mistake in my opinion, as in EVE there is always a possibility of PvP.
Mind, I’m not saying that a pure PvE fit -minimal tank and maximum dps and application- is bad, I’m just saying that this is a choice that may not be optimal for ISK/hour.
An example:
I’ve had reports of ratting Ishtars with three warp core stabilizers… who are still trying to optimise their ISK/hour.
How could non-PvE modules like warp core stabilizers optimise ISK/hour for a PvE activity, you may ask.
Well, if they didn’t, they would regularly lose those ships to my fellow bombers, which significantly reduces ISK/hour.
Fit your ships for your circumstances. If your circumstances involve possibility of PvP, take your chance of dying to PvP into account for your ISK/hour calculations and adjust your PvE fit accordingly.
If that means your PvE fit has less dps by equipping an extra tank module, neuts in the highs, ecm drones in the bay or a warp core stabilizer in the lows, then so be it.
Bonus:
Alternatively you could approach this problem with a different mindset - that you should not need to take PvP into account when fitting your ship for PvE, that PvP against your PvE ship is unfair and that it messes up your rightful ISK/hour.
Thats a lot of words to say that “IMHO pvp fit ships can pve a little” – Are you suggestiing that pvp pve fits are not mutually exclusive?
because this game has you don one of two outfits…you can be the hunter or the sheep…CCP hasn;t put much thought in between and thus, there’s no practical middle ground. Although you can nit pick , split hairs and make it work you either pvp or pve [which makes the pve of this game utterly flawed].
they are, but as I explained in many words, to many posts (that more or less say/state the same thing)… it makes no sense at all to fit PvE-ships for “a little PVP” and it will never make any sense with the current game mechanics.
so, basically, an Ishtar would have a 30km targeting range with 3x warp core stabs, and it would take the Ishtar pilot 20s to lock up a frigate size ship (instead of the usual 5sec).
I don’t know what that Ishtar pilot was doing..
I assume 30km target and ++lock time, don’t matter for him, as drones can rng kill stuff.
But that kind of PvE.. IF it didn’t matter that the drones just randomly kill NPCs, without an order THEN the Ishtar pilot was just doing ordinary anom isk grind?
if the pilot doesn’t care about giving his drone attack orders. It obviously doesn’t matter what space the Ishtar is flying in?
thus, that Ishtar pilot is “bad” at optimizing the isk/hr and he has failed at what he is trying to do (which was optimizing isk/hr, with 3 warp core stabs, instead of 3 dda).
see how the game doesn’t support PvE with PVP/protection mods?
Correct.
It does support PvE. You have the choice to gain a little less ISK for your PvE in order to survive more PvP encounters, so in the end you get more ISK per hour than someone with three DDA losing Ishtars daily, and more ISK than someone who stays docked up until the baddies are gone.
i have explained this too.
No, in the end player gain more isk/hr by not fitting “a little pvp - to stay alive 10 seconds longer”
granted, this is all about to change with ccp’s new mindset that is beeing forced on people.
In a couple of months yes, you migth be right… the ship might be so expensive that 10 seconds longer is a premium.
But then, ccp market changes makes no sense at all, anyway…
you know ccp control the pve, and if ccp want to force everyone into pvp ships ?
why do they even differ between pve and pvp in the first place?
I feel like you are looking at it from the wrong angle.
There is a whole spectrum of fits with different engagement profiles ranging from pure pve to pure pvp with all sorts of fits in between.
Take the Astero, a great ship for exploration (PvE) that also is a very capable PvP fighter if you choose to fit for it. Many players opt to fit it purely for PvE, but it would be wise to fit it for a degree of PvP too, so you can fight your competition, other explorers, in ships with far less combat capabilities.
You still have a probe launcher and relic analyzer, which makes this a perfect example of a hybrid PvP and PvE fit.
I even considered doing the same for my explo interceptor, as I encounter a lot of competition also in interceptors. They can’t fight, so if I squeeze in a point and a couple guns in my fit I can fight them off or kill them.
I would still be the ‘hunted’, the ‘sheep’ or ‘mouse’, fleeing from any Astero or other combat capable ships but for some lesser equipped sheep or mouse, my hybrid fit would become the wolf or cat.
I often get very specific orders from people, so yes, it is adding fun to the game… By equipping people who do PvP in them.
No it doesnt
3 Likes
What kind of non-question is this?
CCP can do a lot of things, but they cannot turn players into environment or the other way around.
CCP did try to make the danger of the environment of a similar unpredictability as players with the addition of trigs, and see how that worked out: even more people complaining about unfair losses!
1 Like
of course they can. its all 1:s and 0:s … ccp can do anything they like.
and also fyi; i was talking about damage applications, ewar and quite possible ehp
(ehp changes in a pvp-encounter, but is static and stays the same in pve encounters)
ps.
im not saying change this and that, im just saying that pve and pvp encounters CAN be more alike then they are today.
today they are so far apart, it dont make any sense to fit pvp mods in pve…
thus… it dosent make any sense to increase the cost of ships - as its the pve players who pays the price, when someone with +10 windows come and kill you in a swarm of 5-10mil catalyst’s.
Okay, I agree that it could be nice if CCP made PvE encounters more similar to PvP. Ships with valuable loot warping off to a safe when they get to hull, NPCs affected by neutralisers or ewar, etc.
I do however think that this could make PvE too easy.
In PvP you’re not sure about your enemy, but if you are, it’s not hard to bring a counterfit.
In PvE you know exactly what to expect, making it really easy to cheese sites with ewar if it all works.
1 Like
i think it would be quite fun aswell… and i think it might even be a necessity if ccp wants people to fly pve - with the current market changes that is underway and so on.
the changes is according to me, an indirect change to force people into pvp ships… so why not make it good instead of bad for pve aspects
Just make pvp fits viable for pve.
Though I guess PvE encounters that operate like players would address this by itself.
The sleeper AI (?) - the AI they used for npc encounters in Wormholes seems akin to the type of co-op pve experience that mirrors PvP.
The “original” brainless npc AI typically creates a mutually exclusive scenario where you are either best fitted to fight pvp fits or you are best suited to fight against the pve. Unless there’s some radical changes I’m not privy to this makes for some pretty divisive fits in the game that really don’t lend to the sandbox experience everyone suggests is out there.
Thank you for your typically insightful and thoughtful words. Its offered so much to the discourse of the convo. I feel enlightened by you and your words.
To me that mutually exclusive scenario seems to be your choice.
Why not use a fit that can do pve almost as good as the pure pve fit, with added pvp funtionality? Or a pvp bait fit that can also do some pve while you’re waiting for someone to bite?
There is no boolean PvP/PvE that you check while fitting your ship, there is a whole range of different fits that are in between those extremes.