pvp’ers adapt to their pray, that happen to be adapting to pve to gain ehp.
i consider this to be basic pvp, hitting the right resit hole etc.
i dont want to offend you, but doing havens in Ishtar isn’t really high-end PvE… ishtars are the new VNI’s… its “basic pve”… i say this not to offend you, but to inform you that, there was a time where Ishtar ratting actually was/could be high-end … but ccp has nerfed the capabilities of running 10/10’s in them, to some extend you can run t5 abyssal ishtars, but its sketchy.
i too have a salvager alt, the ship type dont matter aslong as it has 5 drones and alot of highslots.
also all im talking about is different fit’s, not different ships.
ships role is not really set in stone, but the mods niche is.
No offense taken! My skills aren’t suited for any higher tier solo PvE, so havens are my main reference.
I understand that higher tier PvE like abyssals or solo 10/10s do ask players to push their ship fits up to a point that it is hard to also make the ship be able to withstand a PvP fight.
However, I very regularly do 10/10s in a group in spider tanked PvP Dominixes. If you search deep through my zkillboard you may even find the poor Lokis that attempted to drop on it, lol.
All I want to say is that you can do PvE in a ship that is prepared to fight in PvP.
I am looking at people saying it just comes down to a decision on ISK/hour, when in fact there are many sites that you just cannot do unless you fully optimise your ship(s) for the site. It amazes me that people are missing this completely in their concept of fit a couple of PvP mods. But whatever…
EDIT: Good to see it finally mentioned in the post above my one. I was starting to get a bit knarked on this omission…
yes i know, but then the argumentative response to that is…
“but … who said you should be doing sites solo… thats not what ccp intended.”
… ofc this argumentative is wrong. (but it dont stop the trolls…)
i think its wrong becouse…
first it it assumes that ccp inteded for these sites to be done by many… which is not a fact, but a guess.
and also the bottom line is: its still ccp faults… its their doing that have steered people to the solo pve sites… as doing these sites “by many” is often less isk/hr and alot more adminastrive work and also alot of dead wait-time for others.
. so isk/hr is lower then then doing solo ishtar anoms and so on and on…
and finally, just becouse you are many, and have some pvp mods… it does not mean that your immune to beeing killed, infact, for a hunter+friends a blob of “pve noobs” might be insentive. in the close future, when t1 battleships is 750m for just the hulls… this is a very juicy blob.
I think that you are right… but if i was you i would not argue this point.
as some may think its a very “argueable” point.
there is no reason to “mine and survive pvp”.
increasing the cost of the mining ships dont change that equation by much.
it only change “miners” into spiteful pvp’ers/bait…
so why arent ccp just removing the entire pve segment of this game, that would be alot easier?
Each time I undock my miner I try to survive PvP. Keep an eye on local, fleet chat and intel channel, have cloaks so I can hide when danger comes close, my fits prepared in case someone does tackle me with resistances, ECM burst and drones, remote repairs, etc.
Often I get no PvP, but when I do I’d like to survive it.
yeah sorry mate, if you do get PVP, you are lucky to survive - or you are PVP fitted bait and not a PvE player at all.
current mining is about, as you say and do, hide from pvp.
currently, there is no point to “mine and survive pvp (by fittings)” - you survive pvp by avoiding it.
althou, i guess you can fit 1 stab without any “real” isk loss… but then again, as a miner… how much do you really make to begin with… and also, 1 stab don’t always save you…
Yea, except I’m a month away from a Rorqual and in those you cannot avoid PvP. You will eventually get tackled and you better be ready to survive PvP then, even though you only intended to mine.
rorqual is a great example of a ship that is a beast at pvp, and can do a littlebit of pve- in same fit.
the only ship i know of tbh, outside of explo.
come to think of it… rorq are pretty much the most versatile ship in the game?
i wish all ships was this versatile.
The trick to mining while reducing the risk of PvP is to be the hardest target in the belt.
Given the choice between a couple of Retrievers and a Procuror, gankers are going to pop the easiest targets which is the Retreivers; unless of course someone is really pissed at the Procuror pilot.
I’d put forward that its a defense but not one at all.
Its just poor design that CCP doesn’t want to bother fixing . The rorq is a great pvp ship, I do not disagree. It can mine and it can defend. That does not scale well in other ship classes despite the occator tanking crowd.
Tanking in occators is fun and all but you don’t make yourself sound very saavy when you suggest that its a true option. You can mine in Apocs too.
What do you mean? The barges have a PvP ship too, in case you’re looking for PvP miners: Procurers and Skiffs can be very scary with their battlecruiser EHP and drone damage bonuses. Add a couple remote repairing Porpoises with shield links and you have a fleet of very capable PvP ships!
CCP’s grand mistake was putting certain forms of top-end PvE content in the border zone between being able to do them alone and not being able to do them alone. Now these people (and I won’t even use the word “carebear” in this case since it’s actually a very rational human response) have theorycrafted their way into sliding into the content’s “solo” bracket with very narrowly-focused, hyper-optimized/efficient setups, and feel entitled to consider it as the baseline.
This is 100% the developers’ fault, and no one else’s. It should’ve been impossible to mechanically grind out top-tier content like 10/10s or class 4+ wormholes with a single ship.
If it required at least two ships in hyper optimised non-pvp fits, we would have the same discussion though. People would still complain that they cannot afford to fit their PvE ship sub-optimally in order to stand a better chance surviving PvP, as that could mean less ISK per hour, or worse, that they need to split the loot with a 3rd character in order to still complete the site.
As long as people do not take PvP into account as a possible risk in PvE and feel entitled to doing PvE with the least amount of charcters necessary, while at the same time complaining about the possibility of PvP and not using any of the tools the game already offers them, we will keep this discussion.
I don’t mind whether 10/10 should be designed for 1 ship, 2 ships or 10 ships. It’s all fine for me.
