Get out of here with your facts, this is GD; they have no power here.
3 Likes
I donât mine. Never have mined Never will mine.
But, how insightful YOU are? LOL
I think now its changed a little bit, yes before you had the blanket war decs from certain groups and trying to deal with them was almost impossible as you either got caught off guard and died or you would set a trap and their out of corp alts (which were undecable) would see the trap coming and they would dock up. Now with War HQs they donât get as much of an option to do that since you now can have a target to attack and have the war drop off. Its not like it used to be where there was virtually nothing the defender could do.
1 Like
Whole heartedly agree with the OP.
Iâd like to clarfiy two points about the mentioned data.
-
They looked at corps not individual players. So the corp became quiet during and after the dec. Not necessarily the players.
-
CCP explicitly said it was not new players that were being targeted. It was usually corps that had grown at least a little.
Iâd also like to point out that for several years, like 4 years, there were prominent members of the wardec community and carebear community discussing wardecs and what to do with them in a discord channel before CCP decided to redesign decs, and despite that pool of knowledge and experience AND at least one CSM member saying âlook here are people talking about wardecsâ , CCP had almost no engagement with them.
What happened was this:
CCP asked the CSM for a shortlist of features to work on in 2016-7. One of those listed was wardecs. CCP asked the wardec discord one question about the decs they made, one question that was so insignificant that i donât even remember it. CCP also used their new data analysis tools to learn what was happening with decs.
They found that the majority of decs have no kills, that aggressors had a 100:1 kill death ratio, that half of wardecs were made by 5 groups, that corps (not players) went inactive when they were decced and even after the dec ended they did not become active again. The numbers were so âstarkâ that one CSM member said that it justified removing decs altogether until we had a fix.
Initially they just made it so that wardeccers needed a structure to dec. But wardeccers adapted by condensing further and more decs were made by three groups instead of five.
They panicked and just about held off the delete button. Making the majority of corps completely dec immune but still having full access to structureâs.
It was the absolute essence of a hatchet job.
Shortly after, activity numbers declined. And did so for about a year and a half. Youâd think that if wardecs were having such a detrimental effect on player retention that nerfing them so hard would have a noticeable and positive effect on player activity. But nope. It took a world wide lockdown to turn that decline around.
Now CCP and some CSM are saying new player retention is looking great (or much better) right now, but havenât released the details yet.
Edit- I should add that CCP did a follow up on decs after the changes. They said that decs were more active. I take this to mean that the proportion of decs with kills is higher, but I expected as much since the amount of decs being made is far far smaller and if youâve got no one to shoot, at least you can blow up their structure.
Good? Well no. Wardecs are now the pretty much carried out by one group. If it was a problem to have so many decs in the hands of so few before, it has only gotten worse. And CCP never did mention what the kill/death ratio became afterwards.
And of that one group doing the deccing, Iâve recently been informed that a significant chunk of it just left for low sec.
The future of decs is bleak. And thatâs not good for a game that needs a balanced risk/reward.
7 Likes
Really now.
Did you see the data? Or are you making some assumptionsâŚ
Iâm going off the text of the CSM minutes. It says corps. Not players. The data was never released unless youâre in a sharey mood.
For clarification:
CCP Larrikin pulls up activity data for players of corporations that have wars declared against them and it shows considerable activity drops in all activities during the war. They also show that the low activity continues after the war ends.
My interpretation is that the data does not track a player that leaves a corporation for an NPC corp or another corp that isnât wardecced.
5 Likes
No, war dec mechanics are much better this way and actually offer a way to strike to back against the aggressors and prevent everyone from being forced into NPC corpsâŚagain. Current mechanics foster social structures better which is better for player retention in general. There was a reason the mechanics were changed, CCP had data suggesting that people being wardecced were overwhelmingly one sided in most cases and only led to people going to NPC corps or just not logging in.
2 Likes
Nothing of what youâve said explains why the target needs to have a structure.
Social corps as an idea were good, and i was the biggest promoter of the idea since it first appeared on the forums around 2013-14ish.
But why is the threshold structure ownership? Which is an utterly meaningless choice since you can put structures in another corp and still have full access.
3 Likes
The rule should have been that all corps pay 11% NPC tax. You can form a war dec immune corp, but all of your members will lose 11% in tax to the ether. As soon as you opt to get rid of the tax (or collect the tax for the corp), you become war dec eligible.
5 Likes
I would assume that they canât dec anyone as well as long as you pay the tax. If I didnât say it, someone else wouldâŚ
You canât dec anybody unless you own a structure. That was a brilliant idea that I fully support. It gives the âvictimsâ a way to force a fight if they want to.
2 Likes
Calm down miner.
1 Like
As someone whoâs conducted thousands of wars, this is 100% contrary to my experience. Whenever I did a war against an entity that had new players in it, the newbies were often the most willing and excited to fight back, while the older players were the ones doing the bulk of the complaining and whining about losses.
This is still the case, and always will be, because in a war, one side is the predator and another the prey.
This never happened, mainly because PoSes werenât the primary war driver before citadels. I honestly donât know where you got this bit from.
It really wasnât. Prior wars were about killing ships, and current wars are about attacking unmanned structures while the other side is asleep.
2 Likes
Because itâs honoUrable, donât you understand, you griefer!? PvP should always be about having an even fight, and shaking your opponentâs hand after itâs over!
The âblanket war spamâ was less of a problem in the past than it is today, because a lack of structure requirement meant that most wardec groups were much smaller, and rarely allied with one another. Now, because of structures, they have to band up into big organizations in order to make the most of the war-related expenditures, and to be able to guarantee the lack of interruption for their wars by being able to defend their war HQ via sheer numbers.
No, they donât fight back today just like they didnât fight back in the past.
A terrible idea because of how counter-intuitive it is. If the aggressors are able to cause that much damage, thereâs no need to extend the war because the defenders either lost all their structures already, or have very little will left to put up any resistance.
1 Like
Perhaps CCP has given up on them and moved to NPC invasions to provide some risk. 
3 Likes
Or they havenât yet figured out how to monetize them.
1 Like
Until they realized they canât fight back, and lose ships and the will to play the game.
Which is what I experienced. People leaving the game and never coming back after joining a corp, being wardecced and losing a ship.
Yeah, if people leave the corporation they can play, how surprised.
Does not change a thing to the fact that war decs were removing people from the game. Actually you literally showed that wardecs were bad for the game.
True new player being not mentioned anywhere in the quote you made, you are making up new terms out of nowhere.
They say that itâs not a âlot of brand new player that are being war deccedâ , does not mean that they are not the one who suffer from the war dec. Does not mean that they are not the one not able to react âcorrectlyâ (that is, leave the corp).
Does not mean that war decs were not an issue for new players, opposed to what you wrote.
2 Likes
Typical incompetent bitter jellybear, Anderson believes newbros canât defend themselves, just because she isnât capable.
3 Likes
Is pretty much what is happening. NPCâs are replacing players in that regard and the problem with that is that its completely predictable in where they appear and with even less agency because every trig you kill respawns for free and Trigs donât hunt like players, they randomly wander through systems.
Iâm glad theyâre here and having a significant effect on bots or afk bads. But they donât compare to wardecs and gankers.
Citation needed.
3 Likes
It was given above.
It was given already hundred of times.