High Sec War Dec by Hell dawn...Structure Defense

[Dracvlad]

@Solonius_Rex

Just because someone does something stupid without realizing or understanding the consequences, doesnt mean he is brave.

I said he was not a coward.

@Scipio_Artelius

So on their more than 200 structure kills they’ve never used 6-8 RR Domi’s and instead almost every time the core of their fleet is Leshaks and/or Talos, often with Megas, presumably for the benefit of the web bonus against fighters.

And why do you think that is, you are talking successful structure bashes, do you roll up with Talos’s when you know you have a defender, or someone in a fitted structure. No you don’t. Hell Dawn are not PIRAT so they get nervous with bling.

@Scipio_Artelius

However, two times they’ve failed, they used 6-8 RR Domis and both times those wars just happened to be against you?

Because they dared not risk the bling fleet.

@Scipio_Artelius

What that implies is that they have a Domi fleet they use with a 100% loss record (including any other times when you weren’t in a war). It’s so bad that there’s no evidence that the fleet has ever been used, and despite the fleet compositions they are successful with, the advice to the OP is that they’ll bring this losing fleet?

So when you just analyse Zkill on success you are missing stuff. Did you get the clue when lovin removed his post where he said he was not the FC? He would have likely brought the bling fleet…

@Scipio_Artelius

That doesn’t make any sense.

Your issue.

@Nicolai_Serkanner

Dude, come on. It is TheDrac you’re talking about. He has all the facts because he has seen it!

This is so funny, thinking 100% intel from Zkill, ROFL.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

hinking 100% intel from Zkill,

No one has written this. zKill provides an easy to read form

But there is absolutely 0 evidence anywhere to support what you are writing.

They’ve not ever been successful with 6-8 Domi fleets, nor have they lost Domi fleets when unsuccessful.

There’s just nothing to actually support the advice to the OP.

Things don’t happen without evidence, but we are supposed to believe in this case, that they do.

[Dracvlad]

facepalm…

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

facepalm

This doesn’t really provide much support. It provides nothing actually.

[Dracvlad]

Still I think this is all I need to say.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

Still I think this is all I need to say

Altetnatively, all that can be said.

When people can, they do. When they can’t, the only thing that can be done is to deflect or dismiss.

Dismissing doesn’t add any weight to the advice given to the OP. It makes the advice look weak.

[Dracvlad]

I already answered you, you just chose to ignore it and you doubled down on ignoring it. I then dismissed your comments with the You may think you scored some massive forum war victory, but indicating that you rely 100% on Zkill is not a smart move.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

already answered you, you just chose to ignore it and you doubled down on ignoring it

If there was something that could be verified in what was written, I would have, and then apologised if I could find it true. Unfortunately, it can’t be corroborated at all so far.

So not ignoring, just there is no actual evidence to show that the advice to the OP is good.

@Dracvlad

ou may think you scored some massive forum war victory

No forum war that I’m aware of. I am just sticking to what written and it surprised me when I saw the Hell Dawn would probably bring a RR Domi fleet, because it’s not the current meta among wardec groups for the most part.

I was interested in finding out how often they used it and on what kills. They dont from what can be seen.

So as per my original post, it isn’t having a dig at you, and I’ve stuck to the arguments put, not to you individually, or to me individually.

@Dracvlad

but indicating that you rely 100% on Zkill is not a smart mov

Not relying on any evidence is an even less smart move, however perhaps the third time will be the charm - no one is claiming (me included) to rely on zkill 100%.

zKillboard provides an easy to read format, so from a discussion/communication perspective it is user friendly, but not 100% sum of evidence available.

Take from it what is written. There is nothing to support the advice given to the OP. Unless something can be posted of course. So far it hasn’t been.

[Dracvlad]

OK, so you have no idea that they may use RR Domi’s in certain circumstances, not my problem. Feel free to ignore it then.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

OK, so you have no idea that they may use RR Domi’s in certain circumstances

There is no evidence that this is true available anywhere so far.

Maybe it’s a memory of some other group that is being misapplied or something, but there is no evidence to show that.

Is there any evidence at all?

[Dracvlad]

I really don’t care if you believe me or not. I am going to send something to the OP just so he knows. Then I will continue to

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

I really don’t care if you believe me or not

I’m quite happy to, if the evidence is there.

If you have some, just post it. Then we can all see that you are correct and I’ll totally apologise for not being able to find any evidence myself.

I’m not having a go at you, just the advice given to the OP. It doesn’t appear to be good advice at all.

Anyone that the OP might be able to get to help him is going to want to try to get some intel on what they will face. On the basis of what can be seen, an RR Domi fleet isn’t it.

[Dracvlad]

You have just not located it.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

You have just not located it

Clearly. I think I’ve been pretty clear about that, hence the question, do you have any evidence of it you can point me to?

[Dracvlad]

I can easily point you to it, but I am actually fascinated to see you continue to do this. I think this is funny. You don’t believe me, fine I can live with that easily.

[Gergoran_Moussou]

@Thelliere_Solette

You don’t have to be at war with them or anything, you can bring logi!

Praise James.

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

I can easily point you to it, but I am actually fascinated to see you continue to do this

So the choice is just to take some saddistic pleasure?

Seems strange, if it can be easily pointed to, to instead just take pleasure in making someone else struggle when they are just looking for some assistance.

Pity really, but that is a style choice I guess.

Guess we’ll all find out in a couple of days if your advice to the OP is sound.

[Dracvlad]

I don’t think you are being honest here, so if I did point it out to you, I think you will just concentrate on the circumstance of the loss mail. Let’s just say that when returning to Amarr someone decided to go through lowsec to cut the time spent moving and got baited and hot dropped.

@Scipio_Artelius

Guess we’ll all find out in a couple of days if your advice to the OP is sound.

Lovin was not the FC for the fleet that left without fighting, I get the impression from his removed post that he did not agree with the ship choice. As Lovin is likely to be the FC for this structure and his tone in that removed reply I would bet that the RR Domi will not be used. My bet would be 6 Leshaks and 3 Nestors, and I have already said that. So smirk all you want, the dig I made was that a contested one resulted in a drop down to Domi’s and they did not even engage with that. So I found that amusing, am I supposed to apologise for that?

And on that note I will leave you to it, you can find the fit if you really want to look for it, but whatever.

I rather like the fit actually…

[Thelliere_Solette]

I’m actually speechless after reading all this…

[Scipio_Artelius]

@Dracvlad

I don’t think you are being honest here

You resort to calling me a liar time and time again, when you have no basis for it.

I don’t ever see value in not telling anything but the truth. It makes life a lot easier.

@Dracvlad

so if I did point it out to you, I think you will just concentrate on the circumstance of the loss mail

The circumstance of a loss mail don’t really interest me, so I wouldn’t concentrate on that at all.

It’s already seen that they occasionally use 1 Domi in their fleet (8 times out of their 223 successful structure kills and most of those recently). I assume they use it like we do, for the damage projection that the domi has, and for people that can’t fly a Leshak. But they only ever have 1 from what can be found.

Losing 1 in lowsec is fine.

However, there isn’t a single piece of evidence that they use a fleet of RR Domis. That’s the advice that I’m trying to validate. It would be interesting if they did, but there isn’t anything to show they do.

This is what the advice:

@Dracvlad

Hell Dawn will likely bring about 7 to 8 RR Domi’s at that time. It might well be lovin, … He has about eight accounts. That 8 Domi fleet had 4 of his accounts active in it.