Well by your own admission you’ve said that you used to harass players for hours by bumping them indefinitely, do you think that is how the games player base should be/act? It seems like CCP took a stand then against this kind of behavior I don’t think it is entirely unreasonable for them to do it again.
It can still be done, it just takes more ships to do so than it used to. Where there’s a will, there’s a way….
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Well then in my opinion the change was a step in the right direction, I disagree with the argument of if there is a will there is a way so we should just allow all griefing and harassment to continue indiscriminately
Aren’t there various ways of counterplay against this kind of behaviour already?
As far as I know you could:
- pick up your MTUs sooner if you know someone’s killing them
- use a Noctis instead to pull your grids if you know someone’s killing them
- sit cloaked next to your MTU to kill whoever goes suspect killing them
- fly to another system where nobody is killing the MTUs
- take the loss, MTUs are cheap in the rare case someone is killing them
- ask (or pay) a friend or corp member who does the ‘sit cloaked next to the MTU’ part, surely someone likes a free kill if you’re sure someone is out there killing them
Why not pick one of those?
EVE is a game of challenges and solutions. There are solutions available for your challenge, try some!
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I don’t disagree with you at all that these are all valid counterplays. I also want to thank you for the engagement and the feedback. I’d look at this argument the same way I looked at the other persons argument when they claimed they would harass players for hours by bumping their freighters and ORCA’s. Theoretically that problem could also be resolved by some of your solutions, swapping ships, hiring someone to help you solve the problem etc. My motivation for making this proposal is from my survey of the playerbase that resides in High Sec. It is entirely to commonplace and accessive for gankers and griefers and I think this is a very sensitive topic at the core of Eve’s gameplay direction. I think the balance between player retention and new player insertion and appeasing the existing players that find their enjoyment through griefing and harassment is very delicate with CCP. I believe however it is heavily loaded in favor of the griefer’s in it’s current state. Yes there is a number of solutions currently in the game as you have mentioned but CCP has in the past made amendments to their stance on griefers and gankers and I don’t consider my proposal to be entirely unreasonable and it isn’t gamebreaking for the subset of players who want to continue being High Security nuisances.
Nah. Orca-bumping is done in a Machariel, those fits are pretty tanky (people have tried to bring nados to pop them), ganking them is impractical unless you actually have a big fleet of dedicated gank alts, in which case you’re more likely to be the one bumping than to be the bumpee.
I understand your point and I appreciate your engagement and feedback but I do not think this is a defeating argument, there still was solutions to that griefing issue they just weren’t as varied or likely, and there is still solutions to my griefing issue. I think both issues can be valid and in need of attention.
I had more to say, but when I saw this little tidbit I immediately dismissed any opinion you had as irrelevant. What’s subversive and negative is playing a full PvP game, fully knowing it’s a PvP game, whining when PvP happens to you, and demanding the game be changed to accommodate your own fears of PvP in a full PvP game.
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MTU hunting happens everywhere in space. It’s a valid playstyle.
Killing MTUs also should be an accessible action as it can interrupt your looting of wrecks if someone else places a MTU there. In fact in my alliance it’s common practice to simply destroy the MTU of any ally or enemy who places one during a fight.
Making it a criminal action to attack a MTU would stop you from freely attacking a hostile selfish MTU without sacrificing your ship.
I think the suspect timer is a good middle ground. It allows players to destroy a simple deployable without much cost, but people can also defend their MTU if they wish to do so.
Well I appreciate the engagement and feedback. I understand your disagreement.
No you don’t, because you don’t even recognize what the actual issue is here.
When they become suspect because they hurt your poor little MTU, you can freely shoot them. The only things stopping you are the fact that you’re afraid of the consequences of that action and that you refuse to put yourself into a position where you’re not afraid of the consequences of that action. You want CCP to change the game because of issues that stem with you.
I agree that it is possible to do so, but this argument subverts my point that in most cases people are blowing these MTU’s up in pvp fit ships in hopes of luring you into aggression, if you are a PvE player like most new and inexperienced players are you are going to get baited into a quick death, even if you are a more knowledgable and experienced player you would have to go dock up whenever you see the kill report and swap to or refit a ship for PvP, when the Griefer can instantly warp to and dock up at any available NPC station in the meantime and avoid any consequence of their actions. I do believe on paper the suspect timer would be a good middle ground but in practice it often leaves the original owner of the MTU at a loss without reprocussions.
Well I appreciate the engagement and feedback.
then do not be f’ing stupid.
do not engage
and if its a newbie that is being stupid….well then its a learning lesson isnt it?
The MTU hunter will likely hunt more MTUs if they’ve killed one.
All you have to do is figure out which kind of ship they’re flying and be next to the next MTU in system in a cloaky ship that can take on the ship they’re flying. You could even ask corp members to join in on the fun!
Now if the MTU hunter is smart they might suspect a trap when they see the owner of the MTU is in system with them, so you could even be devious and drop MTUs with an alt in the next system over so when the MTU hunter enters that system they won’t be alarmed by seeing the owner of the MTUs they want to shoot in local.
If the lesson is don’t waste your time investing into this game because they do nothing about High Sec griefing and ganking then sure, stagnation isnt going to increase player retention or bring in new players. Your proposal is individualistic in that it benefits the single or small subset of griefers and gankers. My proposal is collectivistic in that it benefits the majority of players in High Security space.
I think this is a bit of moving the goal posts to much, there is of course always a more advanced or clever way to work around griefing and harassment in any such case. My proposal isn’t to find more clever ways of doing so, my proposal is to eliminate the root problem with a very simple change that only negatively impacts those who mean to exploit it and not the rest of the playerbase.
my proposal is to eliminate the root problem with a very simple change
The problem is that you see ‘griefing’ and ‘harassment’ as something that needs to be eliminated from the game.
Player-versus-player combat and competitive strategies are part of this game. Even in high security space. MTU hunting is a valid playstyle, even there.
This isn’t something that needs to be ‘solved’ or ‘eliminated’. You’ve got plenty of counterplay options ready, try one!
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Did you even do your research before you started playing EVE? This is not a game like others. Scamming, and other actions that would be deemed griefing or harassment and would lead to bans or suspensions, is ALL legal in EVE.. the DEVS made EVE like that on purpose..
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That is an intentional misconception, griefing and harassment needs to be regulated in very specific circumstances. My proposal doesn’t eliminate either from the game, it doesn’t stop you from hunting MTU’s either, only makes it easier and more realistic for the player to return the favor or ensures Concord delivers that repayment.
For example, earlier if you scroll up there was a commenter bragging about how they used to harass players for hours on end until they would log off by bumping their ORCA’s or Freighters. Do you believe that was a crucial and critical part of the Eve Online experience and a valid playstyle? CCP certainly didn’t and they made a change.