Is that a new game destroying tactic?

Hi all,

After a long time quit, come back to EVE again. Actually I’m not a hardcore PvP player, I like PvE most. Builds, rotations, tactics, etc. High level missions were my best fun in the game and was aiming for level 5 missions one day.

Yesterday I returned back to game, bought omega time and was running a Level 4 mission with my Dominix at high sec (Aunia 0.8)

While I was in combat and after deployed my MTU-Mobile Tracking Unit, that was destroyed. Some frigate came and kill it. And it was middle of the pack, while I was kiling other packs, (at the same range), I targeted him and sentry drones hit too. Then he disapperad and come back. I stuck to web and warp disturbing. And didnt have many light drones or any other pvp devices at fit.

Then lost the ship… Got 100m from insurance for a 400-450m lost. And that was the only ship I had for running Level4s… Now, doing level 3s with myrmidon to collect and replace lost again.

Then I remembered why I quit Eve. If I go low sec I understand but Im near to the starting base, at high sec. And while running level 3 missions today, again another frigate ported in to the quest site and targeted my MTU, (I got it fast this time), then I dont know try to steal my loots or etc. were looking a yellow skull blinking under name.

Is that the new game destroying tactic? Find ppl who do quest, go kill their MTUs? And go away with it? To attack PvE ships called as PvP?

I came to edge to uninstall game again seriously. I just undock to quest site at 0.8 high sec, and lost 400m cost ship and only thing I know to run L3 missions, will take 2-3 weeks or more to replace back.

Couple minutes after return back to game… Is that how Eve welcome to returned players?

Btw I can quit or stay, 1 more or less, no one cares or minds I know. But can be many new players in same situation and that destroys their fun. Its not pvp, its not a skilled fight. Just someone come with a 3-5m ISK frigate and kill your MTUs or steal loots. And go away. or web+warp and kill pve build ships easily.

Hope they do something for it at future. Like MTUs not destroyable, (at least couple hours after deployed), Maybe cops kill faster suspects faster.

This game could be better when they can split PvE and PvP more. I wonder how long does it take to recover that lost…

Thank you and hope you dont fall in same situation…

Suspect baiting (with or without MTUs involved) is ancient history. If you shoot someone they can shoot you back.

If you don’t prevent them from leaving they can reship and come back stronger as long as the limited engagement timer is still in effect (5 minutes from last time you attacked the guy). When he warped off you should have known it is time for you to dock up until the limited engagement expires.

You’ve been careless and paid the price. The game is fine there is play and there is counterplay. If you paid attention you could have just scooped your MTU quick. And when it was destroyed you could just eat up the loss and not shoot the guy. You made two bad decisions: 1) shoot the guy and 2) did not leave before he returned.

Now you can decided if you will learn from this mistake and carry on or ragequit. The choice is yours.

o/

12 Likes

Oh just checked and he didn’t even reship he was flying a Nergal which is designed to punch well above its class. Know your enemy before you engage them and if you don’t then best not to engage at all. I assume you thought it is something easy to kill because it is a frigate and you’re shocked it was able to murder your battleship. Yes that’s typical for suspect baiting. He simply outplayed you / you let him carry out his plan and played out your part in it.

Oh and btw: Never fly what you can't afford to lose or replace.

8 Likes

And one final funfact: His triglavian assault frigate costs more than your T1 battleship.

And if you check his zkillboard you see he lost quite some of them so if anything he lost much more overall than you. :wink:

6 Likes

Everything is a lesson at life and always opens new doors or ways, then we choose what to do. I like the game but I quit before because of that kind of out of logic mechanics. If people want PvP, let them do another place, low sec. If people want PvE, so give it to them. As I said, I like the game but you can loose your 1-2 months of work in 1-2 minutes, so time waste makes me quit. System supposed to have more respect to effort. At least,

  1. MTUs should be out of target list at least at high sec or mission sites.
  2. Other people shouldnt be able to port in quest/missions/ scenes so easily, at least high sec.
  3. Coming and stealing loots, killing your mobile units etc shouldnt be accepted by the game. Idk how much but 5-15 min suspect timer is nothing. This shouldnt be so easy at high sec, police must port and burn in seconds, And playing like a parasite is not “PvP”.
  4. Insurance is like a joke. 30m like insurance paymen, 100m payback = Just 70m recover for a 450m ISK loose. Instead of ISK, game should give same ships and parts. Make insurance payment higher or let people choose which parts to insure etc. (Ship, modules, drones) and get as item instead of money. So loosing at least can be able to recover. Many game, we die, get up, continue. Think any other game which has highest population, imagine you loose everything, every items and equipments / gear on you whenever you die, how many people continue to play that game even it is very good or one of the best?
  5. At least returmed/new started players should avoid pvp days.
    etc. etc. there are many ways to make it better and fair. And believe me many more people were online, playing and paying. Even loosing a ship could be fun if had a recover. Now, working 1m 1m by level3 missions to collect isk again. more than 2 week I assume. And imagine you have disconnected, internet gone, power gone or something emergency happen middle of combat and you lost your ship by no reason, not a mistake. Even so, insurance is not enough to recover your lost. You can waste time anytime. That is not a game…
    Doesnt matter how they make better graphics, adding new ships, change UI, etc. If game doesnt have respect to your time, meaningless.
    If that happened at low sec, I shouldnt say 1 word or think about that. If I go there, anything can happen. But if someone come and kill your MTU which worth 7m, steal your loots, salvage in your site while questing at green (high) sec etc playing like a parasite to taunt you, and game mechanics let that happen, sorry this is not a fair. Doesnt matter how good game is looking or how many good ships there are. If mechanics and logics are terrible, no need to waste time.

And that happened again today while doing L3 missions. Someone port in and went to the MTU directly but I got it back in time. Then start to looting I guess. Seriously. Do we call it as PvP?
As I said, at low sec, that can be acceptable even a honorless fight for me. But even at high sec such things happen, sorry this is not fair.
Btw thanks for responses and recommendations. I see that point as a big risk for game population and future. I dont want to pay 150-200$/year to just sit in a frigate or do level 2 - level 3 missions only so “I can fly with something I can afford when loose.” I remember the days with more than 50k people online, now 20k and if you eliminate multi acc bots etc, real number is more lower. So, 1 more or less doesnt matter, there are other games I can get busy but that mechanic / logic destroys the game. And I assume I am not the only person who is not happy about it.
What new players / returned ones will do?
Not just for a lost, I lost many ships while running quests. I rage for how game letting that happen even there are many solutions to avoid it. And that logic cause a player loose, so again doesnt matter how they make game better, graphics better etc. Meaningless if cant play with fun.

Not going to read that wall of text. Fruitless to try convince me anyway as the mechanics are balanced and even if you changed my view I have no power to alter the game. Already stated the facts so not even a reason to argue about all this.

This is the game and as noted before there is play and counterplay. You made wrong choices and faced the consequences as you should in a balanced game like EvE. Everything else is just your stubbornness of ignoring the reality. So whether you learn from it or not if your choice.

Fly safe o/

4 Likes

I respect your opinion; but, I want to point out I don’t share it.

What drew me to play EVE, and has kept me playing EVE, is the asymmetrical nature of the game. I like that aspect. I like that EVE is not fair. Anywhere.

I think it’s unfairness is it’s best feature.

I don’t like npcs. I can’t match wits with programmed npcs, or outthink them, because npcs are programmed. They just follow a program. Unlike players, who can have brilliant insights, or just plain luck. Npcs follow a script, which in the end I find boring.

Players, on the other hand, are full of surprises. Some are smarter than you thought, better prepared, or not. And, if they are not, can I take advantage of their lack of preparation? Am I mentally quick enough to seize the “moment”?

That’s what is important to me. And, this game provides that.

Like you I have my preferences; but unlike you I like this game the way it is, and am happy there is such a game as EVE is now available for me to play.

So, what you consider a “game destroying tactic”, I consider a feature.

7 Likes

EVE should not have any safe spaces. If it did, EVE would become nothing more than a single player farming simulator, populated mostly by players such as yourself. It would also encourage even more botting. No thanks.

3 Likes

Speaking of which:

Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE.
- CCP Swift

Intended gameplay by design, recently confirmed again by a developer. :wink:

You aren’t forced to use a MTU, it is a luxury to accelerate looting. As such there is a risk to using it if you aren’t paying attention. Seems balanced to me.

4 Likes

Mtu hunting is legit gameplay. Attacking it leads to suspect status.

Combat probes exist to hunt down other players or mtus. So yes they can warp to you or your mtu to destroy it or you.

3 Likes

Your last kill prior to this one was in March 2021. Assuming that’s when your break started it isn’t really a ‘long time’ as far as Eve is concerned, and MTU’s were introduced long before you took a break - back in 2013 - so no, it’s not a ‘new game destroying mechanic.’

As others have said, there is play and counterplay. The guy shooting your MTU takes a risk just as you do for dropping it and then choosing to shoot at a suspect when there were probably half a dozen moments when you should have realized it was your time to dock up if you didn’t want to be involved in pvp.

Where the hell are you running missions, Jita? Find a less populated system for god sakes. I can’t remember the last time someone warped in on one of my missions let alone two days in a row. I do occasionally lose MTU’s when I leave them out overnight, and that is entirely nobody’s fault but my own.

Right. And neither should ganking, or any other type of pvp that you don’t understand or have the upper hand in, right?

Insurance has always been a joke, and it isn’t intended to fully mitigate your loss otherwise where is the risk. Though really, who buys insurance for their pve ships anyway? I insure all my pvp ships because I expect to lose them within the insurance period if not the same day, but my pve ships? I keep those for months if not years and it simply isn’t worth the cost of keeping them insured because frankly I never lose them.

If you don’t understand the mechanics of pvp there ARE areas meant for new players like you; the starter systems. Not only that, but the new player experience has improved by leaps and bounds with the AIR Careers and tutorial agents. There ARE a handful of resources available to new players like you but I doubt you’ve bothered to check any of them out or do anything to re-familiarize yourself with the game before coming to the forums to complain.

Honestly everything you’ve said just reeks of entitlement. These are all well established mechanics that have been in the game for almost a decade and yet the rest of us have managed to adapt and thrive.

Solution: Understand that losses happen, learn from this experience and think about how you can turn the tables to come out on top next time.

Mostly, just don’t shoot at people unless you are ready to lose your ship. This should be common sense.

3 Likes

I mostly PVE. I can tell you after my first week of playing I looked at local and treated every pilot I seen as trained assassins that are out to kill Me. Some really are trained assassins. Situational awareness is always key. Its something that should be applied both in game and out of game. I embrace the pvp element. Hell I suck it at but its that danger element that gives the game character. My last advice is this if you don’t already doit. Give that pilot a negative standing. Then keep local up. Soon you will have a list of bungholes longer then your friend’s list.

5 Likes

Everyone expect different things from game and have different taste of fun. It is easiest way to say “accept it or leave it”, typical in every community. Here to discuss ideas instead of a judgement or a comparison.

I spent time here to explain which parts of game made me disappointed as a “returned” player. Even that can be count as a “new” player just started to the game and come to a waypoint after couple days.

I analyse the situation and focusing the parts of logical game mechanics which should be better if it was different and as a conclusion that should help keeping people stay in the game or increase population.

As giving en example from myself, I quit before because of game had such terrible logic many ways. You can love it, accept it, I respect so keep living like that. Im sure that I am not the only one who think that way. And I am not a “free” player, if you pay for something, you have right to critise or expect “better” things from it. Even in the game there is a button at left buttom corner mean like “how funny was your day today”? etc. If they dont care, why thats there? Customers have right to make critics and companies who take that serious go upper or stay alive in the market.

I m over 40 years old and playing games since windows 3 / dos 6. So no need to childish discussions.

I wrote ideas here maybe someone in charge can see it and understand it or we can discuss it is possible or not, good or bad instead of meaning “game is like this, that supposed to be so, accept or leave it!”.

I can uninstall game now, 1 more or who cares, doesnt big loose for company to earn 150-200$ less from me for this year, but I know I am not the only one who rage like that. Read many places about logics which made people quit. I say “game should be better if was like this at high sec”, I point just a small part of game, for “new” or “returned” players, not whole. Maybe you got used to live like this or accept that stupidness, or blind to understand others perspective, but time is not so cheap to waste.

Maybe they can think about to change something in future and maybe it help to eep more players in game.

  1. MTUs situation : When I first figured out that, it changed the quality of PvE time time was the reason I stay in the game, PvE became so funny and effective. But today, when figured out that it can be destroyable and people are chasing about it, PvE fun is over. Instead of putting mtu and jump to the other quest, now need to babysit or watchout for it. And that make quests “take more time”. or another solution, you will ignore the loot and salvage, but thats also another lost for PvE. Instead of destroyable by players, make it stay like max. 3-5 hours in space. If you mind that people wont buy more of it and want a way to make them loose, there are many ways for it. But not making it a possible bait tactic at high sec. Middle of combat someone come and destroy it in a level 4 mission…

I used it before and never seen someone come after that, so thats why meaned at topic like “something new?”. Because done many quests and didnt see before. Thats why wondered if it is a new career way. If you look that guys old kills, mostly MTUs and PvE ships at high sec.

So, its a nice exploit to make PvP at high sec.

  1. People are jumping in quest sites. Why game make that happen while missioning? Show a mmo where you can jump others dungeon, wait near the boss and have a chance to steal loot. (In dungeon, not open world). Missions/quests shouldnt be open world activity imo. Whats the point of it else than destroying others PvE? Already all of other activities open for it, exploration, worm holes etc. Make a place special to whoever accept it. Thats also stupid. If someone friendly need to come, they can join or see if they in same fleet. Not so hard to solve. If game let people port your quest area, if game let to kill your mtus or steal your loots, thats stupid. So whats the difference between low sec to high sec then? And PvE of this game is very low quality. That logic where game destroys its own PvE.

  2. Suspect timer : Thats another joke. You become a suspect easily but so easy to survive it as I assume. You are PvP build and you go to a quest site and you know that ship is %99 PvE build. And you can kill MTU or steal loot easily and be suspect and escape or survive for it easily because I assume its a very short time. Risk of doing this is to loose a 5-10m small ship, but chance to destroy a 450m ship. That destroys PvE at high sec.

  3. Insurance system, replacing & recovering losts is like a joke. (1-2 weeks of work, can be lost in couple minutes.) I heard and read many places that many many quit because of loosing ships. If thats a problem which make a serious conclusion like loosing players (customers), whichever smart company accept it or do nothing for that? Seriously, everyone loves to say “dont fly something you afford to loose anytime”. a good philosopy but so do I pay 20$ to just fly with frigates or destroyers worth 3-5-10m not dont care when loose? Or replace easily. And you can loose your ship anytime not just PvP, thats part of the game. Internet can go off, power can go off, pc can crash, something outside of you can happen and you can disconnect middle of a quest and loose your ship easily. So smart guy who dont need to insure his PvE ships, lucky that nothing terrible happen outside of the game. So, does insurance system give a fair recover? Got 100m for 450m ship. so fair. But instead of isk, better to get same parts and make insurance more expensive or put in “omega sub” logic etc. Since it is not so stupid high price, game company even can earn money from it. Can be another reason to buy omega for example.

If people feel like they waste their time and effort so easily in a game, they wont stay there long. Thats a common customer habbit in all of other games, no need to discover wheel again. So, game will win or loose if be more generous about that point? I wonder how much $$ they lost because of not figuring out that point and not understanding or seeing how many people quit because of that from game. Every omega person they lost, 150-200$ per year almost.

Common mechanic, “you can loose ship anytime, dont fly something to not afford”. Its okey for small cheap ships but what people do PvE with higher cost ships? I wont pay and play this game for just fly with frigates or destroyers.

Recovering and replacing is huge time consuming, I dont earn 400-600m isk per hour like you pro players, 1-3 m per quest. Collecting small small. And loosing that effort so easily or even feeling that is a risk at high sec or anytime anything can happen to pc, or internet or electric etc while playing, comes to a conclusion that game has no respect to effort, or not a good recover solution. And thats why many people quit because of it, so if they keep saying “accept or leave”, answer is easy.

  1. Game should “welcome” more returned and new players to keep them in game, there are lots of career ways but possible to destroy by others easily. The best welcome as I see is “accept or leave”.

  2. System should avoid any kind of PvP at least some small places or at high sec. “Nowhere is safe” is mentally sick situation. Living skeptical every second… That over than fun for a game. When doing PvP or exploring low sec, its fun but not 7/24 even at high sec. People need to breathe or relax sometime.
    (Didnt happen to me but heard about that long time ago that some alpha accounts were killing mining ships or others even at high sec etc. dont wonder if that is another pvp career job)

  3. Minimize “nowhere safe” rule at least some places/parts of game. Stop pushing people to become skeptical psycopaths every second or mentally press, thats sick.

  4. Comparing to other games, (heard from many others too) omega sub prices are high according to what game offers. For example, today, game offers such a low quality PvE fun and I think game dont worth that money. There are other games give more for free or lower price, maybe also thats another biggest reason of population decrease after loosing ships. I read that too a lot. Many people think game dont worth it according to what it give. That"s the reality of market. If there is no “fun”, there will be no money. And of course “fun” changes from person to person. Everyone have different tastes.
    For me, If game should give me the PvE quality time as I expected, then I shoul say “that´s worth every cent or even more” but now, PvE of Eve is not giving good quality fun time.

The only I figured out is doing level 3 - 4 missions which can be called pure PvE expect other PvP factors, else what is to do for pure PvE?

Exploration? Thats open world activity, I liked it but thats also end with loot stealing or PvP at the end or so much time for nothing.

Ratting? Worm holes? Again open world activities and where, how to do? So will end another part of pvp.

I mean real dungeons, raids like in other mmos. Just figured out there were Abyssal dungeons from videos and really found interesting and look funny for PvE (which I expect from this game) but no filaments in market now (as saw in the videos) and read on forums that it doesnt drop or very low rate now idk. So, that activity also end for me before start. So, PvE wise Eve is very very low quality. No real PvE activities else than missions, like dungeons or raids. Maybe there are somewhere but game is terribly bad at giving information or guiding to new players.

Game has tons of career ways but I cant find better than missioning for PvE and missioning also not funny wherever there is a parasite/bait risk. Missioning is over for me when I learned that MTUs can be killed, so lost fun from it too. So nothing to do much in the game, so really easy to uninstall and quit from game. I want to play game but there is nothing much motivating me in. Thats the point I want to explain, edge of loose customers / players.

Im not expert or pro like you, just give me a reason and tactic to make good quality PvE time. But there comes the point where I feel like this game is now welcome “new” or “returned” players.

So, looks like only mining is left to earn a bit “safer” income but idk what happened to it. Very low profit now. Almost half prices compared to last year where I left last.

Game make you skeptical for everything because mentally sick logic, if someone invite you to somewhere for an activity, you cant even know. Main game rules:

  • Dont thrust anyone, can be scammer…
  • Dont fly ships you cant loose, (okey for cheap ones)
  • Nowhere is safe, (wtf you have high sec then?)
  • Whatevery you do, risk of loosing ship (All games ppl die and start over, but important point is how game help or give you chance to save your time and effort. If at wow, whenever ppl die and loose all their gears/empty inventory, how many people could still play it?) etc. etc.

These are acceptable and even funny at some time and some dose but living 7/24 like this with over dose is seriously how mentally sick is that? Do you think new players love that logical mechanics? Are we looking to have some fun or become skeptical psycopaths here? I just want good quality PvE time until ready to PvP, but whatever I think to do, dont see much fun… so if one day someone ask why this game is loosing people, maybe there can be some answers in this text. Keep your “accept or leave” mode…

Most companies pay other PR companies to make polls or analys to hear such critics. (Not for someone to give toxic answers for others perspective ofc)

Imagine a world someone crashing your car, breaking house windows, stealing your money, taking your plate when you sit at a restaurant etc easily and police says, “learn to live like this, that is life, if we find in 1 hour, gets punishment otherwise anyone is free to do it.” And still people think “what a wonderfull world we live in”… Good luck & have fun to you then…

There exists such a place. It’s called California…

5 Likes

You realize this is (E)veryone (V)ersus (E)veryone…right? This is a PVP game at it’s core. The PVE that exists, is there to finance, encourage and create opportunities for said PVP.

Go play WoW or Fortnite, they seem to be more on your level.

Can I have your stuff?

4 Likes

If it takes you 2 months to farm 500mil then try something else you should be making 80mil/h, try this:

your ship can cost 3mil and you make 80mil an hour or more and its fun. Don’t even worry about a cloak just go cheap the first few times if you die then go again in another ship you will eventually make a lot.

Nothing stops you from quickly making the money from this and going back to lvl 4’s if you enjoy it.

O and go at least 15 jumps away from jita before scanning for a wh xD just a hint.

1 Like

This is what makes EVE better than other games and is what many EVE players such as myself enjoy about the game.

If you don’t like it that people can interfere with other players in this game, perhaps play another game that doesn’t allow such gameplay?

1 Like

I understand if you feel like i’m being a bit harsh, think of it this way: Would you go to an italian restaurant and complain to the other guests enjoying their dinner that the restaurant doesn’t serve chinese food? No. Would you go to the theatre to see a horror movie and complain to everyone sitting around you that you’re not watching a romance? Probably not.

To address real concerns about the game from a position of understanding or genuine curiosity into how you can become a better Eve player is one thing, to take a year long break then come back, immediately lose a ship due to your own mistakes and lack of understanding and then take to the forums to complain about how the game isn’t this or that, complaining about every mechanic that has made this game successful for the past 2 decades is neither productive nor is it likely to get your concerns heard by CCP however legitimate. In fact I’m pretty sure it’s posts like these that are the reason CCP Devs ignore the Eve forums in the first place.

2 Likes

Before i make any comment, your age reference point is moot.
There are plenty 40y+ players, myself included, that play EVE.

1 - If you think the MTU situation is unfair, be happy you weren’t around years ago. In fact, be happy MTU are a thing, this wasnt even in game for most of its live span.
2 - This has been going on for years. P much since its inception. Highsec isnt safe, its safer. You undock, you accept the terms of engagement right there and there.
3 - See point 2.
4 - If people quit because they lose ships, they haven’t done the necessary research on how EVE functions. if you cant afford to lose it, dont fly it. If you do lose it, harden up and deal with it. Losing your ship in highsec means YOU did something that allowed the other player to engage you - its not low or nullsec.

You proceed to state that you wont pay and play just to fly frigates and destroyers. That’s fine, but then please refer back to point 4.
Earning 1-3m per “quest” implies you aren’t utilizing your BC or BS effectively. You dont need to be pro to earn that 5 times over per mission, all you need to be is mediocre, with a questionable fit in meta modules.

5 - Yes, EVE is very much a deal with it or else game. And may i remind you it is much more forgiving now than it was in the past.
6 - No. And this is not a mentally sick situation. It is what EVE has been for years and all it required for you to understand it is a few minutes of research. You wanna breathe and relax? Be in highsec, dont attack suspects and dont be a gank magnet.
7 - No. See point 6. Toughen up.
8 - Sure, but you have the option to play as alpha and earn your omega. There are literally dozens of videos on youtube to show you exactly how you can do it.

EVE is a PVP game, as someone else already highlighted its E(Everyone) V(versus) E(Everyone). PVP becomes consensual when you undock. Anything you do can result in fights.
Adapt, learn to understand mechanics, and overtime, you will not only learn how to deal with it, but likely also how to completely avoid it.
All it requires is a shred of willingness.

Everything you mentioned in your wall of text boils down to you not having it the way you want.
All that implies is that you never did your research properly, and are completely unwilling to adapt.

If this upsets you, then the game simply isn’t for you.
At the very least accept THAT, and move on.
Or you know, deal with it like the rest of us do, and actually become a better pilot for it.

And your last argument where we should imagine a world yaddayadda doesn’t even hold up.
If you get robbed IRL, thats seriously tough on anyone. It can feel like that in EVE too.
But to refute your silly argument: players wont attack you in highsec if CONCORD is on grid - its a deathwish.
People also likely wont rob you in front of police officers, the consequences are then also immediate.
That would be the only sensible comparison.

3 Likes