Highest Volley for an alpha clone?

(Timothy Crane) #1

Looking for a kinda “glass cannon” type ship, which an alpha clone can fit?
I’m currently flying a Catalyst, which does 315 alpha (:3)

(Lady Ayeipsia) #2

Technically, a Minmitar thrasher using artillery should have higher alpha from a raw damage potential.

However, depending on target, sec status, and need, there may be better options. For example, in a .5 system, DPS may be a better option. Also, a cruiser may be better but more costly.

So what are you trying to accomplish?

(Sindara T'Soni) #3

The biggest DPS number possible on the Fittings window would be my guess.

(Timothy Crane) #4

The highest alpha strike for Gallente (sorry, forgot to mention that…
It doesn’t matter what the price is, I will save up :slight_smile:

(Lady Ayeipsia) #5

But that isn’t alpha. That is damage per second. There is a distinctive difference that can play a very crucial role in combat.

Alpha is how much damage can be delivered in one shot. DPS is that number divided by the time (in seconds) it takes to fire a 2nd shot.

For example, an artillery thrasher could generate an alpha volley of 1000 points of damage in one shot. A catalyst may only generate 500 points of damage in one volley. The thrasher has a higher alpha.

However, a blaster is ready to fire again in one second. An artillery gun is ready to fire again in 4 seconds. Though tgmhe thrasher has higher alpha, it’s DPS is lower over all.

As for why this matters… In a 1.0 system, you may get only 1 shot off before concord shows up and kills you. Here you want a high alpha as you only get the one shot. On the other hand, if say you are in .8 sec system and concord’s reaction time is 3 seconds, a thrasher would not out damage a catalyst. The catalyst would be a better option.

Alpha can also be used in large fleets. If my fleet can cause 200k damage in one alpha strike, we can kill a ship in one volley. I don’t care if the enemy has logistic ships because I can blow up ships without giving them a chance to heal. Where as if I can’t blow up a ship in one shot, they have time to repair anf alpha may not be the best option.

(Keno Skir) #6

DPS is not the same as Alpha. OP specifically asked about biggest alpha.

He’s trying to accomplish an Alpha Clone Gank fit, hence Lady’s clarification. Depending on the security of the system and his chosen target he may want either max alpha or max DPS.

(Lady Ayeipsia) #7

But again, for what purpose? Your catalyst will be good at applying damage to frigates. A Thorax may be able to achieve better alpha or DPS depending on which you are looking for, but it may not be able to apply the damage to say an afterburner equipped frigate.

But on the other hand, if you are trying to run missions fast enough, a vexor may work better. The drones do not have high alpha but good DPS. Equip drones and rails, use the drones against bigger targets and the rails against frigates, and it may be faster than a pure dps thorax. But due to drone mechanics, a vexor won’t have a higher alpha than a thorax.

So again, what is the purpoae of the fit?

(Timothy Crane) #8

Probably to gank :wink:

(Timothy Crane) #9

In maybe .5 to null sec

(Kynami Vaille) #10

Currently that is the purview of Minmatar artillery cannons. A Catalyst has good DPS, but if you are looking for best single salvo damage you aren’t getting it with hybrid guns.

Granted you can get over 1200 salvo damage alpha with hybrids using a Gnosis, but that isn’t exactly “cheap”.

Though if you wait until some time in December you should get a nice big number available via Tornado artillery fits within alpha clone restrictions.

(Matthias Ancaladron) #11

My guess would be a gnosis with the heavy medium artillery, t2 damage rig, implants, and the damage mods in the lows. Gyrostabs for minmatar? You could probably get a few thousand alpha with that.

(Lady Ayeipsia) #12

If .5 and below… Catalyst is still a good option assuming you want pure DPS at low cost.

The way I see it…

Catalyst, good for tanking smaller ships in .5. Obviously, the more catalysts the better. 3-4 to kill a retriever with no real tank. In low sec, you may not do well attacking targets on a gate. Unless they aggress first, the hate guns may kill you before you kill them. Nul… Against smaller targets, it’s not bad but catching those targets will be tough.

The vexor is not good for ganking in hi sec as drones are not a good alpha style damage. In low and nul, they are decent. Good basic tank to survive gate guns and decent damage. With proper skills they can be a beast. The only drawback… People know this and may opt to not engage.

Thorax will have great gun dps and may work well in low and nul. Though they should, people do not fear the thorax as much.

(Sindara T'Soni) #13

Wow, thank you, was not aware of that use of the word ‘alpha’ (I thought both times he mentioned alpha he meant the clone state). You learn something new every day, especially in EVE :sunglasses:

Thanks, as above :slight_smile:

(Nana Skalski) #14

Volley is official from fitting window = Alpha is now confusing, its player jargon for Alpha Strike.

(Dornier Pfeil) #15

As Nana said above, it’s short for Alpha Strike, a term going at least as far back as the 70’s, where I encountered it playing cardboard cutout games. It is the largest conceivable damage achievable with a single all weapon salvo.

(Australian Excellence) #16

There’s different optimal ships for every sec/range/job, you need to be specific on what you’re wanting to gank op.

Lol 700dps at 22km range or 1000 at 0 sure is terrible

(Lady Ayeipsia) #17

Is That number based only on gun DPS or does it include drone dps?

The reason I say vexors are not as good is because often people rely on drones. Drones, like missiles have a travel time. Now concord starts it count down the moment you fire your weapons, not the moment the weapons hit the target. So with a vexor using guns and drones, the count starts when you fire your guns and tell the drones to engage. By the time the drones reach their target, concord may be as well, killing you. This limits the time drones have to add to the dps.

So if that dps is based on guns, then it is good. If it is guns and drones the actual value is lower. This is also why you do not really see a fleet of ganking stealth bombers as missiles have the same travel time issue.

And and this can be over come by using sentries, but as the OP said alpha clone, sentries don’t factor in yet.

(Ncc 1709) #18

Highest alpha alpha clone would probably be rupture at 2602 damage.

you can push it a little higher with implants and isk. but thats about the best bang your gonna get.

(Durhur Atruin) #19

Not if you’re sitting 500m away from the target. Not really.

(Australian Excellence) #20

It includes sentry drones ofc… that’s half the dps. You didn’t say they were bad for alphas, you said they were bad in hisec which they aren’t since they do the highest dps possible at both ranges in a cruiser.

You have no idea… Go look at my kb, the last kill I got was me using 12 bombers lol… Bombers are amazing suicide ganking ships, 25k+ damage in 0.5.