How amazing - Cpt. Kirk finally goes into the real space

Just think of it - 70 years ago, when in 1960s William Shatner (Captain James T Kirk) was playing in the original Star Trek, there was not even a slightest possibility that a simple civilian guy could go into space. All those few real astronauts were selected from the best of the best of the best. There were (still are) legends about their epic training and required traits. They were and are the Earth’s (super) heroes.

And now even a 90 years old guy can go into space, no questions asked :open_mouth: 70 years since the start of the show is a very long time, of course, a couple of generations (which is a way too slow for such space hotheads like us) BUT at least such an important step is finally achieved.

On the personal note, I am shocked how bright and witty William Shatner still is in his 90s :open_mouth: You can watch the BBC interview here:

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Jeff Bezo’s & Bransons’s space adventures are lame. Sub orbital flight might be “rocket science” but let’s face it they are a step up above boy scouts playing with bottle rockets, they just have bigger budgets.

They don’t don’t go significantly further than a balloon can go and I bet you could obtain more zero g time with a balloon launched system espicially if using a descent parachute rather than heavy rockets.

Yeah they can go as high as the ISS but for mere minutes. I remain unimpressed. Meanwhile Musks crews are in orbit with days of zero G not seconds for not much of a factor more in ticket cost.

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Well… after 67 at least with the signing of the outer space treaty that all but killed global investment in space exploration.

I am also very much disappointed that we are still not in the age of Star Wars and I don’t get to fly my Millennium Falcon but it’s still better than just building more tanks, border walls, and whatever other earthly political businesses
But I definitely share your discontent about the status of space things

I think that, unfortunately, it wasn’t about ‘exploration’ in the first place - it was arms race disguised as space exploration. Good or bad thing, it is picking up the pace again - especially, China.

I agree with you on most counts, but just a few corrections on the distances involved:

  • High-altitude balloons can go up to 37km high
  • New Shepard’s maximum height is 118km, only 18km above the boundary of space (100km up), and even then that’s because they fired the abort motor in-flight, which gave it a bit of extra height. Typical flights are between 100km and 107km, barely above the boundary of space.
  • The ISS orbits at an average of 400km, although the exact height depends on how long it’s been since they had a reboost
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I just like that Kirk is finally going to real space honestly. :slight_smile:

Actually I was lucky to see and touch the Auguste Piccard’s balloon-capsule - he first did that - and he reached 15 km attitude with it. And I was looking at that metal ball and kept thinking - how did he manage to get down in such a thing?? Infinite courage

I thought, 118km was only for the safe test? It wouldn’t take a lot to gain more attitude from that point, would it?

Not sure how it was disguised. It was intimately tied to the cold War. Maybe looking back it’s easy to compartmentalize the two but it wasn’t at the time.

Periods of technological advancement have always been to combat or prevent an outside threat.

As for China they may want to take another look at that point in history. Because they are repeating the same mistakes the USSR did.

Could you elaborate on this more, please?

Asking for a friend… in the CCP? :upside_down_face:

:smiley: Just asking for an objective discussion and context - more or less I know the space development histories of both the USA and USSR - from both angles. There were mistakes, sacrifices, propaganda, loses, victories, state crimes, and heroism on both sides. But I am not a space history scientist (one cannot eat it all) so there are things I don’t know and some that I cannot possibly know. That’s what I am asking :slight_smile:

But above all, I believe that the whole human civilization is investing too little into the space science whatever the reasons or context. (That’s not a surprise statement from an EVE capsuleer, is it? :smiley: )

On the “bright” side, once the whole Earth’s biosphere goes to hell, the ‘space exploration’ will become the top priority again. Especially for those 2% of richest people owning 50% of the global wealth :rocket:

This is less space history and more global history. The space race was just one part. China like the USSR is more focused on looking song now opposed to being strong later. They are putting money into projects not because they need them but to show they can. They are trying to control a population through force and fear despite their size. They are alienating their allies by being needlessly antagonistic. And go out of their way to make trade into their country more difficult.

These are all things the ussr did that ultimately led to its collapse. The biggest difference is the USSR had more independence in local governments. This both caused it too collapse sooner but also have areas more stability after it collapsed vs what could happen in China.

Is it really space though? Seems to depend whom you ask! Anyway just a publicity stunt to fuel egos yawn

Fixed that for you.

Woo really rich guys can go into sub or low orbit.

Woo.

Wheres my moonbase

Or the Mars base :smiley:

Well, I consider it more like a test stage and friendly competition because Musk will send a rocket to Mars anyway :rocket:

First of all, thank you very much for explaining your angle! Much appreciated! Though I don’t agree with everything you stated but this your angle is more philosophical so I wouldn’t have many fact-based contra-arguments anyway. But I am really grateful that you took your time to reply so comprehensively :+1:
Just one thing - I myself was born in a former USSR country so I can assure you that the local governments were not “more interdependent” - the situation was the same as it is now in Honk Kong. The USSR collapsed because of a different reason - all the system was already completely broken and collapsing onto itself. The Chernobyl scientist (and former communist) Valery Legasov explained the situation in a brilliant academic way in his secret tapes (I read the transcription). Actually, some historians consider the Chernobyl disaster being the starting date of the USSR collapse. (BTW, some politicians were hoping that the Covid would become the China’s Chernobyl point).

Fly safe!

Flying into space, on a rocket that looks like a…

Priceless.

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while they didn’t have any power they were sub-divided and had governing structures in place across the different republics in the union, So when the union collapsed there were people it collapsed onto rather than anarchy. Hongkong and Macau are about the only regions in china that have a similar set up, however the population density in Macau would be disastrous.

Yes this is a symptom of what I described. The state was horribly mismanaged and set itself into a death spiral trying to maintain an illusion of power and economic strength rather than risking appearing vulnerable as it restructured and rebuilt needed infrastructure both physically and politically.

This would be like pointing to a boil as the starting date of an infection. It was do to the USSR starting to collapse that churnable happened. Chernobyl didn’t start the collapse of the USSR.

The space race is also attributed to the collapse of the USSR, Though it was more of an aggravating factor than a direct cause. But that was one of the main goals of the space race for both sides as well as the cold war in general.

This conversation has been interesting at least.

Oh, man… In my country the first years were like from a Mad Max movie - free for all. The international criminal mafia shooting each other and everyone, raping employees even in the town hall in daytime. The KGB mafia were not so vicious but even more dangerous because well organized and working methodically. The ‘police’ were operating as mercenaries-for-hire. The industry ruined because everything salvaged and sold for scraps. Rules were actually like in the EVE’s nullsec, just it happened in real life.
By now most of them are dead, and yet some became ‘respectable’ businessmen or politicians. Some even writing books about harmony…

That. Just as Valery Legasov explained this in an academic detail

Yes and no. First of all, the idea of Chernobyl being the official starting date isn’t mine - it is from a clever USA political analyst (don’t ask his name).
But anyway it was a huge shock that strongly affected all of the East European population and woke them up from the ‘soviet dream’. Made them more conscious of their status, made them to start questioning things - because of the fear which is still lingering to this day. The first official resistance - non-russian army divisions refused to participate in the Chernobyl clean-up operations, which was a huge thing for an army.

(There is the brutally shocking book “Voices from Chernobyl” (or “Chernobyl Prayer”) by the Nobel Laureate Svetlana Alexievich - it’s sort of a book that stays with you for the rest of your life. For docu-horror lovers it’s highly recommended)

But you are right, the Chernobyl happened because the system was rotten. On the other hand, the system might have survived for much longer. The Roman Empire didn’t collapse in a day - it took many centuries. The USSR collapsed in few years though. (Another my own conspiracy theory is that the collapse was accelerated by clans-within-KGB for private power&profit aims. Or they just might have used the opportunity).

Thank you for the conversation! Fly safe!