How to deal with BOT


(Soga no Tojiko) #1

why CCP changed Jaguar but not Wolf? what can I do with just 2-mid on Wolf???

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before that we need to know 'what is bot’
bot is designed for repeating working (which appeared in all MMO, because MMO games requires production)
bot it need to work with logic

identify the graph A in the game===NO====>identify the graph C and press====>next logic
[
[ yes
[
v
identify the graph B and press====>next logic

so , if bots cannot find graph in-game, there’ll be no bots or those programmers who can do somethings advance won’t write bots.

web-sites have code in-picture or other ways to prevent useless users being registered or DDOS attacks.

the bots I saw up to now were ‘itamo mission’, mining, 00-bounty

Have players saw any scanning bots? Because the way to identify graph is too complex, there’s no bot to replace scanning players.
How about use the same way on mining and other production actions?

It can be requiring ‘drill calibration’, ‘rock identity’ what ever but something to do before start mining that bots cannot do. It even can be ‘tetris’(just an example).
Required hacking before entering all acceleration gate, because right now hacking action cannot be easily identify or require sometime to try without logic.
Add the same acceleration gate to those signals in all combat-site, and make combat-site with lower bounty but can drop ‘tier overseer’s personal effects’

Please trust me, the problem of bots can’t be solved with only the working of Game-Masters and Players (like Serenity. CCP Please take some care to Serenity which hasn’t been updated for 1 year or more. even though TianCity is a bast**d) . It need to be solved with basic stuff. And, up to now, I believe those changes noticed before won’t be so costly.


(DeMichael Crimson) #2

Yeah, I’m not happy with the Jag being turned into a missile boat and the Wolf definitely needs a 3rd mid slot.

Hopefully CCP can fix the Bot problem. I do like your idea of completing a small mini game for access to Accelerator Gates. I think the mini game should be a Combination Lock instead of needing a Hacking module fit on ship.


(Nasar Vyron) #3

You give the people programming these bots and AI far too little credit. Coming up with the logic to complete a hacking site or anything of the like is not at all difficult… Hell hacking sites even give you the win condition right there as well basically laying out what should be a positive/negative value of selecting a given tile.

Edit: I’ll add that you are correct, adding complexity increases the change of catching a bot simple due to the fact that more repeated actions being required of the bot would allow CCP to more quickly track patterns between sets of players. Whereas fewer actions require far more data collection to be needed before they can say for “certain” based on data alone.

But that is how it combats bots, not by actually preventing them from being created.


(Beast of Revelations) #4

Programmer chiming in here. While I haven’t thought through the minutia, I think it would be a fairly hard problem for them to solve. At the very least it would be a pain in the @$$.


(Nasar Vyron) #5

I’m speaking as a programmer here as well, specifically from the realm of AI. The logic for the hacking site itself would be simple, especially compared to some past projects. The probing is the only difficult aspect I see as each system is different and doesn’t always follow the same pattern for each scan attempt, but even then not insurmountable.


(Beast of Revelations) #6

I’m not familiar with bots or how they work, and I’ve never programmed one, so take this with a grain of salt… no better make that a truckload. Anyway it seems to me that the AI would have to somehow ‘read’ the screen if it would work the way the mini hack games work for relic/data sites. And if it has to read the screen graphically, that’s pattern recognition, and essentially like trying to break a CAPTHA or whatever those things are called.

Now, once that problem is solved, you’d have to solve the AI problem of beating the mini game or hack or whatever. You say it would be simple, but most programmers I know or ever have known have little to zero experience with AI.


(Brewlar Kuvakei) #7

CCP does not care about botting or Captcha style challenges would have been implemented. People forget that one of the great things with such techniques is that you can perform multi strikes on bots which are devastating to their users. You mass ban one type of bot for failing, while ID’ng another but allowing it through wait for the readjust and smash that with a ban wave when users change over.

The reason for not banning bots is because they are paying customers and they falsely increase connected players numbers which is really the only dial anyone of importance at CCP looks at. CCP have been running this game into the ground for years ‘‘Eve is dying’’ is the mantra, milking it for next month subscription numbers is the only mantra at CCP, if you don’t hum that you get booted on redundancy.

Also people forget that botters will happily DDOS this game into the grave if they get their revenue cut off, same goes for some alliances if their meta is changed. CCP has pandered to pet players from the get go and encouraged this gaming.


(Nasar Vyron) #8

You are correct, I am speaking from my own experience. So I suppose you’re correct to most it’s not actually that simple (it’s certainly not what I’d consider basic), but if you messed around a little you’d see it’s not that hard. But that was more or less my point, for the people making the bots it wouldn’t take horribly long to come up with something that works.

You have no evidence of this claim, in fact everything CCP has released says quite the opposite. The problem is it’s a perpetual game of cat and mouse between devs and those who create the bots. And to ban botters without as little collateral damage as possible it takes no small amount of data collection and comparison. That’s also part of the reason why you see bans happen in waves no matter what game you’re playing.

The nice thing about EVE is that players can take part of combating the botting problem into their own hands by camping their systems and smoking them out/killing them with obvious traps.


(Beast of Revelations) #9

I think you are right. Doesn’t matter if it’s hard. If it’s doable, someone will figure out how to do it.

I wonder how doable breaking the equivalent of a Captcha would be?


(Brewlar Kuvakei) #10

‘’ in fact everything CCP has released says quite the opposite.’’

What have you been smoking? CCP is all mouth on botting.

They are company with a rat problem, when suggested they lay down rat poison at the shop floor their response is ‘‘how would you know your shop does not have rats?!?’’. /facepalm. They are also worried that these rats might take offence and bite them, CCP forget people who don’t have rats to begin with don’t worry about bites.

But in fact rats pay an entrance fee and CCP does not give a crap because they still have a base line of players paying next quarters turnover. CCP’s owners are moving onto new pastures and they’ll not look twice at EVE as long as they are getting their turn over each quarter. If EVE falls short on a quarter turnover then they’ll take off the slack with a redundancy & it will go on like this till Eve has a bare minimum staff level till lthe plug is pulled.

CCP will launch a new game that will have the exact same inherit flaws and that games history will rerun in exactly the same manner. The game like all other MMO’s will succeed in this function or it will flop. CCP has a libary history of floppers & one goose laying golding eggs which is tied out back in Icleand freezing to death.


(Anne Dieu-le-veut) #11

The Retribution could also stand to get a 3rd mid slot


(Soga no Tojiko) #12

its not a big deal for retribution a 3rd mid slot because of energy turret. 1AB+scrambler
but wolf use projectile turret, can’t deal a good damage with 9000m+ scrambler range


(system) #13

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