How to fix combat interceptors


(Lugburz) #248

which is ‘op’ the svipul or the taranis?

Are Volta also ‘mediocre’?


(Markus Reinhart) #249

If you’re going to use dumb logic: “see, sebo svipuls are not cancer, because I killed some. Clearly they’re not OP” then that’s hilarious. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Fact remains, combat inties are NOT going to get their bubble immunity back, SOME of the combat inties could use a buff. Enjoy shouting real loud about how they need their bubble immunity.


(Lugburz) #250

FTFY

no, im not using the same logic you are. :wink:

For example.

FTFY


(Lugburz) #251

Everything is OP because only bads lose them. They are OP because someone who has the skills and has had the practice and is competent in one is clearly a bad just using an OP ship, they are OP ships even when bads lose them constantly because they dont know what theyre doing… and its nothing to do with that its just the ship is OP.

That sounds like your logic tbvh

nerf everything, everything is OP?

providing proof is not proof, facts are not facts, war is peace, freedom is slavery… ignorance is strength.


(Bouh Revetoile) #252

Just for a reminder ; AF are HEAVY tackle. They are slower than interceptors that are FAST tackle.

Fleet interceptor are not really combat capable. They are faster than combat interceptors and have the bonus to warp disruptors and scramblers, which help keeping it against neutralizers.

Combat interceptors are still faster than AF (like a lot faster on average). And nimbler, which help them survive at longuer ranges.

It’s that simple. Now one can say that he doesn’t need the speed and nimbleness of the combat interceptor but the firepower and resilience of an AF, but that’s irrelevant to the effectiveness of combat interceptors in their niche.

PS : also as long as your brain is properly functioning nothing can catch you in a combat interceptor that you can’t kill, except a dramiel. Interceptor were already not dying unless they commited to the fight before they had bubble immunity. They shouldn’t had gotten bubble immunity, and they don’t need it.


(LuisWu) #253

Didn’t they acknowledge a 90% drop in combat ceptor use during vegas? They’ll probably give them some buff in 2 or 3 years, they work fast now compared to the old ccp.


(Bouh Revetoile) #254

The drake also saw a 90% drop in use compared to when it was the only viable ship in the game.

Or basicaly any ship used in a nullsec doctrine after it’s nerfed.

That’s the whole point of the nerf.


(Lugburz) #255

explain why anyone would listen to your opinion please?

wrong.

what? why would you want to be at longer ranges in a combat ceptor?

you mean you dont fly one and so cant die in it?
or are you on about the ones you lost because

pretty much like any ship really…

FTFY

i dont think yours is…


(Lugburz) #256

not really sure exactly what your trying to say here but i feel i should remind you that the drake has received several buffs in recent years, of course you would know that if you actually played the game…


(Bouh Revetoile) #257

Because it makes sense ? You know the value of an argument doesn’t depend on who is telling it right ? Or do you actualy believe a gate camper with thousands of kills in a stargate would have a better opinion than me just because of a number on zkillboard ?

But of course consider the way you are “debating” you probably don’t have much clue about what a debate, a reasoning or an argument mught be.


(Lugburz) #258

yeh they will, and it will literally be to add nullify back to it because any balance would basically make it the same as an af or the same as a navy or faction frig.

The ONLY thing the combat ceptors really had going for it WAS that it was nullified.


(Bouh Revetoile) #259

You know repeating something again and again will not make it true, it’ll only convince yourself that it is. But why am I trying ? You won’t even understand this sentence…


(Lugburz) #260

wont make it an truer than the fact that it is no.

I pvp, i fly ceptors aswell as other ships, have a lot of kills in sabres too.
you?
exactly.

My view is based on experience both in solo and small gang, of flying the ship and flying against it.
yours is…
literally out of thin air i guess? or maybe your just another bubble camper incapable of thinking on your feet and actually doing anything other than sitting on a bubble because your just literally aweful at PvP?

again…

Im repeating it because clearly, you dont seem to understand…


(Lugburz) #261

literally the stupidest thing i have read all day.


(El Geo) #262

The Taranis lost some HP when it gained the nullification bonus and I personally feel was well balanced, it could have used higher agility but that’s neither here nor there.
The removal of nulli bonus was a blanket nerf to combat 'ceptors which for the most part I feel was aimed at combating the arty claw which should of just been tweeked itself, again these ships were all counter able and it reminds me again of the way players complained about the OP 100mn Tengu with OGB that could “solo 100 man gangs” but only if those gangs had no logi, lr webs or links (it was also easy to avoid the 100mn Tengu because they tunrned like sh*t)
Back to the combat ceptors, when was the last time anyone saw a 100 man fleet of just Crusaders? Taranis? or Crows?
I still love my little Taranis and will continue to fly it although I will now lose a lot more and be able to engage less because so many other ships are faster, more maneuverable and get better tank but I know many players don’t actually know how to play properly so I’ll get away with a lot :smiley: and they will continue to wonder how


(Bouh Revetoile) #263

You know I would not let a runner of 100m at olympic games replace a doctor, or a pilot replace a mechanic. Because you are good at something doesn’t mean you understand it. And you wouldn’t the first player to not understand game balance or some mechanic of the game ; notice that I don’t mean you don’t understand game mechanics, only that a padded killboard doesn’t make you any good at understanding game balance. So if you want to convince people who are not impress by one man shows, you’ll have to be convincing with words rather than in the game itself.

Anyone should listen to my opinion because it is reasoned and senseful ? But you might prefer the argument than I’m not playing the game since last september, so I have seen my share of buff and nerfs in this game, and I’ve seen quite some of the debates around them, and quite some people like you. Your opinion is not that stupid though, but your attachment to the idea that combat ceptors are only bubble immune garbages definitely is stupid, and you agree yourself with that actualy because you said that any other buff would make them imbalanced.

Also, did you ever flawn an interceptor without bubble imunity ? Because I did. And indeed each time I lost one was because of a mistake.


(El Geo) #264

The AF’s are slower than the combat ceptors
Taranis is only slightly faster by a slim margin
Looking at mass the Taranis is actually heavier than its AF counterpart the Enyo
Consider that the rails on a ranis are absolute garbage
And the most common fits (that work) tend to have a dcu and a micro aux in the lows
This leaves 1 lowslot free, whereas the lowslots on the most used AF’s today enable them to be much faster than both the Crow and the Taranis, while also enjoying 4x the tank and in regards to the blasters on a ranis, much higher range

Claw Tech II 1,100,000 kg 480 m/sec 4
Crusader Tech II 1,050,000 kg 455 m/sec 4
Crow Tech II 1,065,000 kg 430 m/sec 2
Taranis Tech II 1,060,000 kg 420 m/sec 3
Wolf Tech II 1,178,100 kg 415 m/sec 5
Jaguar Tech II 1,229,400 kg 405 m/sec 3
Enyo Tech II 1,053,900 kg 340 m/sec 4
Ishkur Tech II 1,094,400 kg 339 m/sec 4
Vengeance Tech II 1,046,700 kg 322 m/sec 4
Hawk Tech II 1,095,300 kg 322 m/sec 2
Harpy Tech II 1,039,500 kg 312 m/sec 3
Retribution Tech II 1,053,900 kg 300 m/sec 5

P.s I actually didn’t realize the Retribution was so slow as they keep pace with my lil ranis really well and i have to sling shot them to get tackle.


(Bouh Revetoile) #265

Did you actualy read the numbers you are showing ? The enyo, even with an overdrive injector, is slower than a taranis without it. The only AF that are remotely close in speed to even the slowest interceptors are the minmatar ones. And look at these masses : this is heavier.

But you don’t seem to understand what a mass difference is : a 100mm T2 plate is 37500 kg.

Where does this fantasy of AF going as fast as interceptors come from ? What degenerate did put this in the head of everyone ?


(Lugburz) #266

ramming jags.
enyo if fitted for speed… can still have 22k (15second) ehp slightly more speed than taranis and same dps.
both fits listed above.
wolf with only one nano goes over 3600, still has 4 other lowslots…
harpies and hawks are slow as :poop:
retributions speed was nerfed, but was no where near as fast as crusader.

Combat ceptors were not widely flown before the nullification but lets face facts here, there was a lot less shiptypes around then. There were no Damaviks, no garmurs, no navy griffins, crucifiers, maulus or vigils and most people that were flying frigs were links heroes using daredevils and dramiels in lowsec; whilst offgrid link got nerfed out of the game entirely (which was a shame cus i rather liked hunting them) ALL PIRATE and i believe navy frigates got rebalanced. so…

in summary.
Every frigate in the game has been changed since combat interceptors were given nullification.
Glad you remember the time before that - but you seem to have missed the bit in the middle almost entirely.

so much for

If your argument for debate was that ^^ you wouldn’t disregard fitting slots, what people are using currently to counter or even that ive been playing since 2007… or all the changes and additions to modules, mechanics, weapons, boosters even additional implants. You wouldn’t have disregarded new citadel mechanics, tethering and the like, wormholes, microjump drives; command destroyers that can with skirmish burst and mindlink can also go over the average speed of the taranis, raptor and depending on fit also the claw. Or t3 destroyers that align in 2 seconds…
You’d probably know how to slingshot or spiral in to a target or basic things like how an armour fit claw with ac’s would beat a taranis but that dual prop ranis could probably still get out of range… you would know a malediction will beat a taranis but only if certain parameters happen and dual prop malediction will scram kite a taranis; or a raptor can often do the same depending on fit even though taranis is KING of the ceptors… though not as much as it once was; you would - if you were actually sensible… and knew what you were on about… you would know that it is indeed fozzieclaws that are the main protagonist, claws that are often fitted with one or two inertial stabilizers for fast align and used in fozzie sov; where for reasons unknown to me, an alliance with over 500 in fleet fail to do anything but sit on the gate whist leaving a sigil alone on nodes to entosis, or solo rapiers or nereus; of course claws are an issue… but then so is putting on pants in the morning and remembering their own names…

Of course you are

So you took all that into account didnt you? an your not going on a feeling you have somewhere in your mind - that same place where you looked at my killboard and decided it was padded where as your experience ingame is obviously so much more… nah… you wouldnt do that… your

golfclaps


(Lugburz) #267

In summary if you think that rebalancing a tactical, strategic game where it into just about sitting blobs on chokepoints is a “balanced” intuitive progressive and dynamic game that is challenging, rewarding and worth paying for…
or indeed that nullification is an issue now what… 5 or 6 years after its inception?
nearly 5 whole years since the sov change?

I think not, i think something else is at play here entirely; most likely laziness.