The exact figure may be unknowable…but we do know that there are around 4,500 kills in highsec every week. We can see from general trends that a sizeable portion ( especially with noobs ) is due to NPCs. We also know a sizeable portion is older players. But heck…even if the true figure was not 100 noobs ganked a week but 10 times higher at 1000…which is highly unlikely and Why Was I Ganked channel shows no indication of it ( it would mean 142 noobs ganked a day…6 every hour…which is simply not what one sees )…that would still only be 10% of all the noobs who leave every week so Lucas would still be wrong.
Actually…even if every single kill in highsec was a kill of a less than 1 week old noob, and nobody else was being killed and there were no NPC kills…Lucas would still be wrong.
Sure. I agree with you, but he hasn’t said, the majority of new players leave because of ganking. He’s said, ganking is a major reason new players leave.
Those aren’t exactly the same thing.
I think he is wrong, but I bet even if we all discussed (not something that we actually do often, we more argue at each other) what “major reason” means, I’m sure there’d be multiple definitions and what Lucas means by that may not be how it’s being interpreted.
No, he didn’t say ‘a’ major reason he said it was THE major reason. He specifically said ’ It’s the biggest hurdle to new player retention.’
That cannot mean anything other than a claim that most people leave due to ganking…a claim that the data shows is definitively wrong and mathematically cannot be true.
Lol. Straining at a gnat to swallow a camel. Just how many ways can one interpret ’ the biggest hurdle to new player retention’. Its not ambiguous at all.
No…I’m firing a broadside on behalf of all those who will leave if CCP moves the goal posts much more. Noobs are not the only ones CCP needs to worry about leaving. I’ll have pretty soon had enough myself if things get messed about too much.
I don’t know, more than one? I don’t even think my view on that has any importance at all.
They’ll always move them and it’s swings and round abouts.
The answer when numbers go down is always CCP. Scarcity for example, not ganking, caused more people to leave in the last few years than ganking. The “end to scarcity” even compounded that, simply because the end of scarcity wasn’t at all, an end to it.
If CCP provide enough reward for being in space, people will login and undock. We see that when ratting income in null is good. Despite hunters, people still login. But when rewards drop, people stop logging in.
The answer is always - it’s CCP that is the root cause of more players leaving the game than anything we do as players.
As for me, I don’t really enjoy ganking as a playstyle for myself, but ■■■■ CCP right now. I’ve resubbed my gank alts and am specifically ganking Ventures (and if they turn out to be new players, contracting them 10 pvp fit ships and encouraging them to go have fun). Nothing to do with griefing anyone. Just totally about CCP not telling any of us what is worthy gameplay and what isn’t. That’s for us to decide.
If he said “ganking is the major reason for new players leaving” an I don’t know that because I have him in ignore list, then you can never win the argument or provide any data to disprove his claim.
What he means is that the fact that ganking exists makes these players to quit. ie. all these players who didn’t get ganked, still left because their friends or members of the corp they joined got ganked, or simply because the risk of being ganked even exists in this game.
Which just cannot be proven or disproved. And we know that gank-haters doesn’t have to prove anything, it is the pro-ganking side that must prove the gank-haters are wrong.
@Altara_Zemara your logic is rock solid, but the gank-haters and crybears will never accept logic as their crowd is driven by emotions. And you need to realize that Lucas is not there to make the game better or to discuss (in any faith), he is there to destroy this game. He no longer plays the game, he plays the forum and the only way to beat him is to ignore him. He will never accept logical arguments or even clear facts and he will always twist it somehow or derail it or move post goal or simply say “I wrote that, but that is not what I meant”. You are better to spend the energy ingame or for something else.
At any rate I do know what heavily and negatively impacts player retention, it is @Lucas_Kell . Toxicity and constant spamming, if this was my discord server, he would already be perma banned.
He claimed CCP will take meaningful action to ban/nerf gankers. We are still here. CCP even gave us free Omega on alphas which we can recycle to keep ganking without buying security tags. Lucas can say whatever he wants, its all meaningless.
You should tell Githany, they were complaining about how hard it is to find gankers now and considering going to lowsec instead to carry out the anti-piracy police roleplay.
No, my claim is that that is just one of the things that adds significant data. The other thing is CCPs own data regarding 90% leaving within the first week. We know for an absolute fact that even the total number of kills ( including by NPCs ) in highsec every week is not even half the number of leavers.
So your claim that we have no idea of the data is just pure nonsense. We can get a pretty damned good idea from multiple different sources…all of which say the same thing…that the vast majority of noobs who leave have not been ganked.
Of course, it is obvious to everyone that you do not want to recognise any data that shows you are talking BS.
The tethering thing doesn’t affect me…or the vast majority of gankers. The change to Alpha clones simply means I’ve moved my ganker alt to be an Omega account…a minor inconvenience while the Omega skills up but actually a huge benefit in the long run as instead of having a ganker restricted to 600 DPS or so…I can now reach 800 DPS. So ironically the changes make my ganker more powerful.
It seems to me that the best way to increase player retention would to make it a lot more difficult to create a new account. That would eliminate most of these people who aren’t really serious about Eve and would boost that percentage big time.
