How to make ratting space less safe?

The change talked about is the removal of combat ceptors as a viable nullsec ship.

Now @Brisc_Rubal tell us, what you think about ratting space. Shall it be as safe as it can be, or what changes you propose to give some risk to this activity?

I would like it to be less safe than it currently is, and I’d like to see it less lucrative because the current rate of isk entering the game through ratting faucets is unsustainable.

I’m not proposing any changes at this point, but I’m open to hearing what folks think could be done to address this issue (assuming they agree that it’s an issue).

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Delete supers, titans and rorquals. All problem sources eliminated and you made time to improve other issues, fix the code, make a lot more people happy than those couple hundred scap people (people != characters). And after all the major flaws of EVE have been solved, you can again think about bringing back those massive ships (hopefully in a way that prevents this massive proliferation, but I won’t hold my breath for that).

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Just give 0.0 ratting space the NPC AI that is currently in FoBS or even the RnG of rat spawns that is in Abyssal space.

There problem solved.

Although it may cause a lot of 0.0 bears to loose a few ships.

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What kind of proposal Is this? I think the way to fix it is too add more sinks then faucets so there is competition. Also I dont think concord bounties are good. I think the isk should come from the ship wreck like WH space. Maybe drop loot you can turn in for isk.

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A proposal that solves a ton of problems and creates a lot of interaction potential as result.

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Make rats scram/point. Maybe not all rats, but a large percentage of them. It has the added effect of being a scourge to bots who now cannot warp off for a large portion of the time they are in a site. Seems like such a simple, effective “fix” but yet…

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In Null sec you can rat with relative impunity as it is, Rorqs a little less so as they have to siege to be of any real use and a passing fleet could find them, and that does happen occasionally, but generally keep an eye on local and intel and you will be safe. Wormholes are even more lucrative if you’re up in a C5 or C6

Someone suggested a mechanic like the FOBs and that may work in part, someone suggested changing it to be similar to WH sites where the loot is in the wreck, but then how will you address the 1b+ per hour that you can get in a C5/6 b that method.

The loot tables have been reduced so much over the years there will be no point looting wrecks if you do it any more (if indeed there is a point to it now).

Perhaps less sites in a system? You go to an upgraded system and there is a whole plethora of sites to choose from to smash your way through in a carrier.

perhaps just make it more dangerous, roaming drifter fleets that come smash your ratting carrier .

I don’t know what the answer is, but a lot pf people will moan what ever it is, some will like it, some will threaten to leave and come out with some salt about x and Y.

I don’t envy your task.

Remove anchorable bubbles.

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That is interesting and I am curious. How often does one have to repeat himself to be heard?

Many others and I have been saying this often and it must be super difficult to do or it would have been done - unless goons “disagree” from the counsel of goon members.

Anyhow, I said that many times before, let anomaly rats react to the incoming threat like those Blood Raider and Guristas Sotiyos rats - overblobbh and annihilate.

The aggro changing mechanic that attacks drones now was a good step, even though I don’t like but anyhow, NPCs must react way more aggressive to fighters and capitals in general.
The AI for Sotiyo NPCs is already on TQ, so it shouldn’t be too difficult to let anomalies react to capitals like Sotiyos do.
However I would leave lowsec level 5 missions out of this because the risk is very different there.

Maybe even create level 6 missions for capitals and for the love of the Antichrist, bring lots of love to LP stores around New Eden - yes there are some other LP store that are not SOE, the magic LP store that pays people by the hour.

Now my most favorite topic, capital ships or let’s call them larger battleships because everyone should have 80234523890729065794678934 titans at all times you know.

I am with Rivr on that one, delete them from the game and delete cheat stix from the game while you are at it.
Those larger battleships do not deserve the name “capital” anymore. They should be called “delete-everything-smaller-than-large-battleships-remote-fighting-platforms”.

I don’t know about you but unleashing some fighter squadrons that fight for you because you cannot be bothered to do it yourself is not gameplay at all and pressing the FONE button is not an achievement - you should be ashamed.

I am a lot less concerned about w-space “isk per hour” because you aren’t getting paid by the hour but have to probe your way to highsec and bring your voucher to a station first and may end up and the wrong side of my beam-confessor and I will take your “isk-per-hours” of your hand and you earn zero isk.

Yes and no. Remember before EVE had level 5 missions that level 4 missions were the worst thing in EVE because an Angel Extravaganza could pay out around 45 million isk?

The issue with is that it will take at least and hour to complete that mission in all 6 rooms and 45 million sounds okay for an hour of activity.

However bad thing happen when a Haven or Sanctum only take 20 seconds to complete and someone with 300000000 accounts runs 4 trillion of those at the same time on auto-pilot.

There should be a diminishing return on bounty payouts over time, so that whenever someone completes a Sanctum in 20 seconds he will only get 1% of the possible 40 million isk he otherwise would have if it took him 45 minutes.

Which brings me to another of my favorite topics in EVE - multiboxing.

Whenever CCP jokes about “fairness”, I don’t see the pun in someone having 7000 accounts running at the same time while other my have one - and being bashed and flamed at for “playing EVE wrong”.
Sure, if someone feels he is “very special” and needs 7000 accounts, fine, BUT whatever you do, only one account may be logged on at any given time.

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Make anomalies gated largest to enter sanctum being marauders.Remove industrial core tanking bonuses.

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The current AI for normal rats is just useless.

Change ALL rats AI to a combination of Burner, FOBs and Abyssal sites:

Rats warp around so that you lose lock.
Rats primary drones of the field.
Rats disengage to get out of module range, then come back.
Let them get reinforcements in line with the ship(s) brought into the site.
Add interdictor rats.

Overall make the fighting more dynamic and not the current static “rats get into optimal range and then shoot and do nothing else” version.
As mentioned above, put the bounty into the wreck: All rats drop dog tags which can be traded for isk. So you a) have to loot everything and b) have to transport it somewhere (Concord station? ) to turn in.

In general: Make it impossible to afk farm.

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That doesn’t work. CCP has already demonstrated that they cannot even properly enforce the alpha/omega log in restrictions. Even after the fix for that issue, all you need is a VPN to circumvent the restrictions and gain a massive bonus over those users who do not know how to or don’t want to use a VPN to log in several chars.

Ouuh :-/ well, was worth the try.

Let’s see what we can do with the following premise:

  • Ratting still viable as an income source
  • Capitals still viable

Suggestions:

Make all rats target fighters first. Now you end up with ratting being a Pita because you will lose fighters or you will sacrifice efficiency for having less fighters lost.

If that becomes too much of a problem, you can reduce the chance they shoot fighters to CCP’s liking.

Shift a part of the bounty towards wrecks (even if it’s only bounty tags you can trade in with concord). Now, you have to put a lot more effort into it. MTU’s are only a partial solution (they are exposed to attacks, and you need to haul the stuff). If you then still think it’s too lucrative, you have another screw to tune (nerf the bounty for these tags).

^ this has the added benefit of making ratting less efficient for everyone, because VNI ratting with a dozen alts is as problematic as ratting in a super (I would argue: even more because it’s AFK. Can’t AFK rat in a Hel).

Make the rats spawn less densely (this eliminates Titanratting btw). If they are spread out a lot more, your fighters are more exposed to fire.

Double/Tripple/Quadrupple the ammount of frigs when capitals are on grid. Some of these added frigs can maybe have capital tackle?

Maybe add dreadnoughts as capital spawns (just T1, no Factionstuff) that take X time to kill in a super (it’s just an EHP <-> DPS calculation) and give them appropriate bounty (10 mil a pop?).

What irritates me is that it’s so hard to come up with solutions. Even if you don’t add new mechanics (I consider Capital Escalations as being in the game already), you can make it a pure mathematical question if you take the Hel’s maxdps and tune the escalation to exactly how long you think it should take.

Just how much ISK per hour should ratting in a super yield? You name it, Brisc. How much risk should there be involved is a bit more difficult to tackle, but the ISK per hour is an easy metric tbh.

While that still doesn’t adresse the faucet-issue, it at least adresses the isk/h problem aka will reduce the faucet.

Dealing with the faucets in general is difficult, because they haven’t driven up prices (because Plex is the inflation-tank, which has it’s own issues) and therefore aren’t seen as a problem (I can only assume CCP doesn’t see it as a problem because of the Plex dynamic).

That’s the issue. I’m not an EVE economist, so I don’t have the data on how much isk entering the economy can bear.

I think the Devs need to figure this stuff out.

The biggest problem is that adjusting the isk generation volume is going to cause people to go batshit, and there has be good reason to do it and it has to be well thought out. I’d rather let them give us a number and then we debate it than me putting it out myself.

@Brisc_Rubal
What are your thoughts on changing rats do drop items that need to be sold rather than a direct isk injection?
Similar to sleepers or red loot in abyssal sites.

It depends on how they implement something like that. I’d have to think about it more, but I think most folks would prefer a straight nerf to having to haul ■■■■ around.

I figured you might say something like that. :slight_smile:

Regardless, thank you for the post.

There are several communities that already have to do this, WH has to take their blue loot out as well as any other things they wish to sell, explorers have to haul there stuff around to make isk, traders are hauling things from trade hub to trade hub to make isk.