How to solve the Multiboxing Problem for PVE -> Make it a CHALLANGE

Council Of Stellar Management Assembly Hall
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From the various discussions about multiboxing the most common answers were which people disbelieve in managing +10 or even +50 Accounts without using tools which bypassing the game rules. After this I got arguments about how it is possible and how fast people can skip through multiple Windows within 1 Second to give out commands.
Followed by Examples of people caught doing input broadcasting with just 10 Accounts…
Which immediately got answered by this one Person making the soup bad for everybody.

HALT STOP!

These are all symptoms of the problem but not the source of it.
And there is no reason to doctor around your leg if you have a bullet in your heart.

There are different levels of Multiboxing and not all can be solved with a single solution.

Here are some examples which there is no simple solution:

  • Oracle / Kiki / XYZ Reinforcement Fleets
    Single Target application mostly Structures, limited PVP Capabilities.

  • Mass Mining Fleets
    Single Target application mostly Asteroids, limited PVP Capabilities.

  • Space Truckin
    Hell no this shouldn´t be a problem?!

but generating ISK out of PVE Content by Multiboxing has a very simple base issue.

The content is rewarding too good for literally no skill full challenge.
In small scale this nature is due to how PVE Sites work in Nullsec.
Most common would be the 4-5 Players Smartbomb/Edencom Setup which many players tend to multibox alone since the input level is very very moderate.
On the other side it is a shame which we need to use out of game tools to coordinate a PVE Ratting Fleet (beside having the Ingame Fleet, Calendar etc functions)
Rock haven tends to give you 10-15m Ticks per Toon. which is kind of equal to having somebody intense ratting in an afk ishtar.

Copy Paste content

Unfortunately this method was also adopted for other spaces which lead to the current state of the art. Looking at Pochven and also eyeballing Wormhole Space.
People tend to use bigger ships and numbers but in the end it is mostly the same style as a Rock Haven with a little bit more manual input.
Don´t get me wrong there must be a balance between “grindy” content and interactive challenges.

Therefore if you want to fix Multiboxing in the PVE Area you need to raise the challenge to a level where multiboxing is impossible. If you do so you also need to increase the reward for those players who are willing to commit to this challenge.

Conclusion:

If we take what we have it is probably a combination of Adjusted Diamond Rats and different site mechanics which force you to perform 4-5 Tasks at once instead of swapping through your clients juggling through the targets.

The Key

New Content must be unpredictable and forced constantly for adaptation.
Clear multiple Roles, not just DPS and Logi vice versa single Target/Victim

Example of the issue

Lets take the new Advanced Hacking site.. their layout is always the same.
Once you have adapted a pattern it doesn’t change, which then it gets into grinding instead of a challenge. As of today 2200 Ships got destroyed on this site. https://zkillboard.com/ship/93568/
Abysalls where step into the right direction… with different rooms but if you look deeper into it… its the same as above in PVE, once you found the pattern you simple triple box T5/T6 with Frigates. Anchor up… juggling through the Targets, issue solved. its missing the unpredictable, the skillful challenge to adapt, having pilots file different patterns etc.

10/10 Escalations, in particular the Gurista one… a Labyrinth which always has the same way. This is not a site you Multibox… but its part of the problem of just grinding instead of a real challenge.

Risk vs Reward

Also keep in mind if the challenge goes up the reward should go up as well.
Worst case is we keep it as it is, reduce the rewards on the existing ones and start making new sites which are in general more thrilling and directly aimed for group activities.

Group up and go Friendship

This means a lot gets hardcore nerfed, as these sites are than meant to be glimps of what to expect if you go into the real challenge. The idea is to force you into Group challanges.
And the real money lies behind group activity.

PS: Deepmind is comming… who could forseen this :slight_smile:

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good luck with the idea, those profiting from massmultibox grinding will burn you at the stake :laughing:

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That would be Fenris Creations, since they create and sell the plex that allows it to be widespread.

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sounds like someone needs more boxes…lol sounds like it would fix your issue?

And get rid of paid box accounts; and how long you think Eve is gonna last? lol

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So you believe Multiboxer are still paying for the game?
That’s a very strong assumption.

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plex isnt free. Someone paid.

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That’s a very common misunderstanding. For a PLEX to appear in the game, someone has to buy it with physical money. So everyone using PLEX is using something for which CCP/FC has already received the money for in advance.

So multiboxers using PLEX are good for the game, because the PLEX supply gets reduced and someone has to give CCP/FC more money to replace the used PLEX.

This basic fact shows that your premise that there is a “problem with multiboxing” that has to be solved is wrong.

You don’t need to reduce multiboxing, since this would directly hurt PLEX usage. You would need to increase the player base of EVE Online.

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Just to add: 500 PLEX is $25, $5 more than a sub. So those buying ( outside of sales ) are paying MORE than if the multiboxer just subbed their accounts.

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Those who buy plex to sell it for ISK will still buy plex or any other offer to make ISK.
This argument isn’t wrong with or without Multiboxers.

Without Multiboxers the price of plex will go down, since on paper there are fewer pilots to feed with omega through plex so the overall pressure of need is reduced.
If there is even a pressure of it.

So the idea that Multiboxers are healthy for the game is a wrong assumption.
Only if they would use real money to sub their accounts they would have a value for CCP aka FC.
But this is speculation, since nobody from us has the insight.

But you probably all agree which the content is lacking of a challange.

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Wrong. On the contrary, plex prices will go up, as all those buying plex to sell to multis easily will stop buying. There would now be an over-demand from other plex buyers who buy plex for cosmetic crap for an under-supply of plex. PLEX would now be a luxury when buying ingame because it’s purely for ingame luxuries.

Wrong. If multi’s all just subbed, FC would lose money because all the people buying the plex FOR MORE THAN A SUB would no longer have customers to trade them to.

My God, the amount of wrong you do in one post is staggering.

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Why does the prices goes up if the ingame demand goes lower?
Where does the OVERDEMAND comming from if its not existend right now and never was for Cosmetic?

You can buy Omega via NES for down to 5 Bucks per Month via Plex if there is the right offer.
So thats the time where a multibxoer cash in.
Everytime when there is NES offer the PLEX prices goes UP.. not down.

I am sorry but i have issues to follow your logic.

Market rulese you can´t bend:
No Demand → price goes down
High Demand → prices goes up

You only can manipulate it.. but this means you would fake the demand.

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Yeah, why would they want Mr LooserMcBasementDweller to stop input broadcasting on 30 accounts… :money_mouth_face: :money_mouth_face: :money_mouth_face: :money_mouth_face:

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In essence I agree, but they’re also not totally unhealthy for the game either. I think it is more nuanced.

Multiboxers have both positive effects and a negative effects for the game.

Positive:

  • more demand for PLEX per player, which makes buying PLEX packs more enticing (which means profit for CCP)
  • additional income for CCP from the players who pay multiple subscriptions (like I pay two)
  • it is a niche that draws players who like high APM solo gameplay

Negative:

  • feels unfair and turns off potential new players from the game
  • it drives up PLEX prices making it less feasible for players with lower real life currency values to earn Omega by playing, potentially driving those players away from the game

I probably missed more points on either side, but got the ones I think are most important.

Either way, I think multiboxing is not a positive for the game, but it’s not realistic to think that EVE can remove it either.

What CCP, or ‘FC’ can do is to make mass multiboxing less convenient in order ti make it less prevalent, without removing it.

One particularly evil ‘solution’ I once came up with is to add a 0.5 second delay before a client can receive commands after getting in focus.

Unnoticable for a single account player, hardly noticable when jumping to your own cyno, doable when multiboxing 4 miners… but try multiboxing your own fleet of 20 when it takes 10 seconds to command the entire fleet!

Hardware and multiboxing software has gotten better over the decades which makes mass multiboxing a growing balance issue if CCP doesn’t limit it on their own side somehow.

In addition to that, remove the ‘regroup’ and drone assist commands. These are big multibox crutches that regular players can easily live without.

I think multiboxing is here to stay and is not a net positive for the game. I also think that CCP should not remove it, as they cannot enforce it and it also has some benefits for the game that players can use multiple accounts.

But CCP can certainly make it less easy for players to fly their own fleet of a dozen ships as easily as is possible today. And in my opinion, CCP should.

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PLEX is not only a pure demand based business like a resource or something that you buy when needed. It is also speculative investment and depends on how easy or hard it is to acquire isk. Most people just store all of their isk in PLEX.

I never watched PLEX spikes when there was an offer in the NES, because in parallel there is also everytime with a few days off a PLEX sale in the store, so fresh PLEX comes in in parallel, keeping the price at the same level or dropping it. Counterintuitive to what you write.

Also since CCP/FC did all those bulk PLEX rebate offerings, the ingame price really went down. I don’t expect people suddenly earning less isk, so it can only be explained by the massive influx of bought PLEX where all possible demand is already filled.

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Risk vs Reward

Multiboxing eliminates much of the risk in areas like Pochven. I know this isn’t something that can be selectively enforced, but there shouldn’t be so many multiboxers in such a high-reward area.

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Get more boxes and go boot them out? You have the option to run as many boxes as you would like also?

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Just stay out of weapons range…nature is already on it and they battle it out between themselves…

Just one example of so many…boxer gets killed by boxer, kills another boxer, gets killed again by boxer and so on…zkill is full of it :slight_smile:

If you want to keep your sanity, it is also advisable not to search for paladin losses on zkill.

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Therein lies the problem.

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Whats the problem? more paid box accounts = more $$$ for ccp.
more money for ccp = game lives longer.
plebs who don’t wanna box for whatever reason still have a game to play?

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game becomes more and more unattractive for a wide audience that has no intention to multibox = less future $$$ for ccp.

it’s a milkmaid calculation to believe massmultiboxing is helping the game. It only brings in short-term money at the cost of a ruined reputation. I remember an EVE where 1 account was the norm, 2 accounts were common and 3 or plus were absolutely rare. And it was a much better gameplay experience. Which also reflected in the numbers, as we had 40-50k real players online at prime time, not maybe 15-20k with lots of alts like today.

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