I just find it immensely weird that people who desire conflict based content want to continue with a mechanic that does not result in someone going suspect opening them up to content? Is this another case of the can flipping issue in terms of people thinking that they cannot can flip now because they go suspect?
Seriously the mental gymnastics and hypocrisy around this sets my teeth on edge.
If they changed it tomorrow it wouldnt stop me.
I simply play with what Im given now, and thats really the issue here.
Whats so much more rational about changing salvage to suit the grinder than say changing loot to suit the looter?
If its because theres a feeling of “I shot it its mine”, I personally feel its as valid as “traditionally wrecked ships are free to salvage.”
Im not sure how this would work in the case of a gank ie why is that wreck autoblue and not belong to the potential target or CONCORD.
I also still do not understand the reluctance of engaging us with tools already available.
Half the time, Im not even targetted, and a good percentage Im not shot at even when flashy.
Well your attitude is fine then.
Not at all, I like consistant mechanics, and I do believe that salvage should be treated the same way as loot.
If I shoot you for salvaging I will get concorded, it should be the same as loot.
There is a value to shoot you in terms of guarding the salvage.
PS I saw you make a comment about Brexit on another thread, I am wondering what is your view on how the top four people in the EU were selected. My vote was based on not finding that acceptable.
The question being why do you feel this? As I said, I feel the opposite, but without defining why the mechanic is why it is (because it is a loreish decision or to drive conflict or because lazy programming?) all we can do is argue our chosen position.
I dont understand, why does this mean I dont get shot at or targetted by those guarding “their” salvage?
Tbh I probably shouldnt have brought up politics. I know that if we continue this particular topic, the results are unlikely to be productive.
I explained it above:
They currently can’t, the value in Triglavians is based on the salvage and not really the loot. Though there are some decent thing that drop as loot, the main value is the salvage and they cannot defend that without being Concorded. The value of shooting you is not there in terms of the loot value, but with the salvage there is more probability that they will.
Granted, I reread it. Your basis is on the rules being consistant, I grant that as a stronger motivator for reasoning than lore or feeling.
The etc is to show that this is quoted short of the paragraph included, Im not wanting to take it out if context.
I did totally word things poorlybso let me clarify;
When I enter the area Im rarely targetted.
When I start salvaging, Ive never been ganked.
When Im flashy after eating loots, I rarely get shot at.
But I fear if I ask “Why dont they protect what they feel is theirs by have a ganker on standby?” The answer will be “They shouldnt have to” or “Thats why they want it changed”.
But thats how it plays out now. They gain the fact that they remove safe salvaging as an option.
My conjecture is that the ruling is as it is to CAUSE friction. To be a conflict driver, so therefore, if thats the case, it must be a mystery to CCP why people dont shoot at looters half the time in Trig dust ups, and why salvagers are rarely (if ever) ganked.
The kill right is a massive disincentive for more PvE focussed players to gank. If I was going to do it I would bring another character in to do it because if I used my main I would find myself in trouble with the kill right. That risk is the killer, and it is so much more hassle to work around and mostly not worth doing.
However with the Triglavian fleet content I would think that small fast ships driving off people like you as well as working within the fleet would be good content. The other issue is of course their inability to receive reps when in a limited engagement with you which makes them easy meat for the Trigs and the knock on effects if the logi have not set their safety to green. Perhaps with salvage being treated like loot the value will be enough to get around these issues…
I would be more inclined to agree if I didnt see so many fleets of Nestors and Rattles commanded by one person, so they obviously have the capabilities to provide gank support if they wanted.
Of course, while Ive no problem going flashy for a hot 25m in salvage if it was to change, I think that it would otherwise more or less wipe the profession out in non Trig situations. But then of course that is what the OP desires. Unless baiting might INCREASE, and that would also drive content.
The thing is, Ive made more isk salvaging dead players (and their loot) than Trigs. Should I go flashy for that (the salvage)?
Setting up a anti-loot guy is not worth it at least while salvage does not go suspect.
Well going suspect made can flipping too scary for most.
The salvage there should work the same as the loot and it would be fine.
I thought the value was in the salvage?
Its not really a big effort to switch one excess Rattler out for a Catalyst.
Well my view of most humans is pretty low anyway (self included), but their loss is my gain.
And outside of trigs that means it wont be a content driver except for obvious bait as it wont be worth taking for the looter, which means that independant salvaging would cease being a thing. Which again suits the OP.
I don’t know man. EVE PvE is pretty boring and easy, yet somehow some people still find something to cry about.
Pro tip: You “own” the wreck, you are the only one that can traktor it and drag it away from the other salvager. And if your setup does not allow this because of min/max addiction, guess whose fault is that?
i sugested this as a viable option a while back for grid salvage control and a counter
Mission runners Empire ESS.
Premise: allow for more control over who has access rights to Spatial Assets (HS/LS use only).
Solution: create a mobile deployable that creates an XXX-KM sphere of influence that sets all wrecks in the affected area to Owned by X. any interaction on an affected wreck will issue a suspect timer to the aggressing party.
Limits: if this structure is anchored then no other Mobile structure can be anchored. (mobile tractor, depo ect). If the structure is unanchored then all in space assets revert o the default setting after XX-seconds (session change timer)
Counter: 2 options here…
#1 problem in eve, alts
Its only a problem if only certain groups can use them.
As it is, the playing field is one of the most open in that regard.
I think youd see more resistance from tge PvE and Industry groups than either PvPers or opportunistas like me.
At that point he can’t use that character in anything but a cheap throw away ship and I remind you that it requires him to gank the salvager at this point in time. So he is just not going to do it. You can’t see that? He is not going to gank someone in a cheap catalyst and then jump back into his Rattler, so he loses DPS, it is not going to happen while it requires ganking. It is so damn obvious, you are surprising me that you cannot even see it.
All those players who say that can flipping was ended by CCP are lying, they ended it by refusing to do it because it was too risky.
So you don’t want the content then and you want to continue with your risk free salvaging protected by Concord, well fair enough.
Im not sure why you are saying some of these things. Are you attempting to make me reply emotionally?
I dont see why you want to argue over the definition of excess?
I certainly didnt say that.
As I stated above, I would still operate regardless, but now my mission salvage cleaner alt needs to be repurposed in this projected dynamic. Again, we are in the position that one person gains over the change while another loses. It just happens were are in opposition of this particular one.
And again it is risk free because those complaining make it so in the current status quo.
I dont understand why you support those who employ the least effort.
LOL, I am not at all sure what you are arguing about or what you feel I want to get you emotional about. I just can’t understand you not seeing that people are not going to lose a Rattler DPS boat part of their fleet to that as it currently stands.
Never said you did. But there are a certain group of players who blame CCP for removing can flipping which surprises me becase they can still do it.
The answer is there, I detailed it. The mechanics should be simple and work the same way as loot, then more content will derive from that, it is quite simple really. The majority of the value is in the salvage which requires the defender to gank, due to the loss of their ship to Concord and additional risk due to killrights a player looking to run this invasion content is 99.99% unlikely to partake in shooting a salvager. It is pretty easy to understand, not sure why you don’t understand it?
Yes it would seem you are trying to illict a reaction.
Still Im not about this stop me wanting to be reasonable.
I still am of the impression that for a person who clearly has played hard and well, you want to defend those who dont really do anything productive, while supporting them wanting to take mechanisms out of the game.
Ok, we are at an empass. Thanks for taking the time.
I am bemused at you thinking that this is something that most people running invasions could just go and do, as in gank the salvager. The killright is a real issue and they need to have a dedicated gank character and most hisec PvE players are not set up that way. The salvager is totally safe while they salvage, and is fairly safe if they loot, because small fast warping ships and all that.
But if salvage was treated the same way as loot people could setup for it, ships would explode, you would have more fun evading the response and so on. More pixels blowing up, more cat and mouse content, real danger. Not pretend danger.
I still don’t understand why you don’t get it.
Here is my attitude, I only run invasions when they are very near me, I also only run them at certain times of the day, as soon as salvagers start appearing in number I pack it in and do something else. Can’t be bothered to play with poor mechanisms, same attitude I have towards using a freighter.
I project in the long run it would generate less friction and overall less content.
I dont see why if a gank team can run indy alts, an indy team cant run gank alts.
Replace gank with salvage and thats what I do, the latter.
Edit: Incidentally, the fact their ships can carry quite a lot of salvage gear withput a drop in dps themselves, is that relevent y/n?
Now if they made perhaps salvage as big as loot, then I could be convinced.