I’ve been trying to do some invasions in the last days and I seem to have a problem with two things -looters that steal your boss loot before you can get to it/or tractor it and salvagers who salvage right under your nose and not get a suspect timer.
SO the biggest income in this invasions is in salvage and boss loot and those two are taken away most of the time and it seems that there is no way of countering it.
Not to mention that is almost impossible to solo any kind of invasion content (minor conduits at least) if you do not have a marauder or many people.
If CCP doen’t do anything at least for the plague that stealers are I feel that this invasion content will be pretty unappealing.
Is there anything that can be done besides at least adding a suspect timer for those that salvage wrecks that are not theirs, which I think that is absolutely necessary.
Lol, easy, 1) have your own salvager in fleet, 2) be faster in looting, or kill the ninja looters.
BTW, if you are not able to kill a ninja looter, you will also fail with ninja salvagers, if they would be suspect.
It takes 10+ seconds to target a looter in a battleship and most points do not work at 30+ when they steal your stuff. At the moment it is too easy to steal other people’s stuff.
Not to mention that there are people waiting to get your loot, they got limited timer engagement on you and they bring out a pvp ship to kill you, like a Leshak that can kill even a marauder (but that is another thing)
All the fleets I saw, had a looter close to the boss ship and all potential ninja looters pre-locked. Competent fleets have no issue with this. Tell this to your fleet mates.
I just want to post my comment to the 01) solution … It does not work once when you have 2-3+ salvagers in the pocket. We had our own Noctis, but those Destroyers\Frigates are just too nasty since they get their salvage tackle a lot faster than a Noctis can (first tractor, and then the salvage).
The only thing you can do is:
- Stop shooting and wait that they either get bored or that NPCs target them (happens rarely if you have the RR).
- Destroy an NPC, let them MWD to it, and you warp out - let him die from the instant damage from frigates\destroyers.
Have your own salvage destroyer running around. You may not get all the salvage but more than nothing. Personally I would like to have rats aggress “spectators” more regularly.
Ninja looting counter is easier, because you know where and when you have to be (hugging the boss).
A hint for solo, I run the minors with my Loki with full brawl. As long as I kill stuff, I can tank the waves. But be careful if more people come to your site, this escalates to more NPCs, and I had to warp out to some distant astro a couple times. Be sure to clear scrams always first.
It is very interesting to see this type of “have your own xxx” solution.
The invasion is a PVE event, and with some kind of PVP, but still mainly a PVE event.
Being fun/provide social aspect/ fleet work are all good things, but by the end of the day, how much you get is still important for some players, who wish to support other activities with the money they get from PVE.
When talking about PVE for ISK, for a event to be favored, there are two major factors
- ISK per hour per account. Yes per account. as every account means either a increased manpower or someone multi boxing. You have to understand the extra account is a cost. Even for multi-boxing, if you are good enough you can do it but still that’s a cost for you.
- Risk vs Reward
The ninja problems (ninja salvage, then ninja loot, then ninja ISK/LP taking) reduce the 1st factor a lot.
Risk wise, ninja salvage and ninja ISK/LP taking does not have any risk except the very low chance of rat turning fire. Ninja loot takes some skills though.
The conduit runners usually does not have risk if fitted properly, but still the cost is higher and the time needed to move all the ships around is higher (than moving a destroyer around)
It is especially true for the conduits, when
- people know you are there as they are shown on overview
- the ninja isk/lp taking, you can actually share the ISK/LP with one single hit to the rat, and stay on the field while the last rat is killed (True for minor). You can shoot once, stay out during the fight, just come back before it ends, you will get paid and share the ISK and LP.
There is basically no counter for ninja ISK/LP taking.
For ninja salvage, you’d probably need a dedicated noctis, while it helps, it still can’t secure at least 50% of the loot while facing multiple ninja salvagers.
The ninja play style is kind of “encouraged”, if we do the same analysis again, it cost less account, take less time (you can keep an eye on multiple conduits or system for good target), involves less risk, need less skillpoint. When you do it correctly, it can have a similar isk/hour/account output.
But hey, this might be what ccp want.
People wish to make the EVE online a harder game!
Remember that the invasion is designed as group PvE. If you want to do it solo in the same way as groups do it and find yourself at a disadvantage, you shouldn’t be surprised.
Well yeah a 1-3 minor counduit for group PVP
Even so, this does not challenge what I said:
each of the extra group member you have is man-power
if the same man-power can earn more somewhere else, the invasion will be less attractive
I kind of like the invasion, and we took down world ark after last DT but for now I’d rather ninja take LP.
That is all what I’d like to point out.
Nothing about if you do it as a group or solo.
By the way, I’m reading the info about minor conduits given ingame - optimal players 1-3, major conduits 5-6 players
That means minors can be solo’ed. Only ship I know is a marauder that can do that. Investing in a 3-4 bil + marauder and getting your stuff taken under your nose (salvaging) is not cool.
Getting more than 3 players in a minor is also an overkill - so where does the dedicated anti looter and dedicated salvager fit in?
Yeah, what happened to that loot anyway? xD
Limited knowledge. Actually a BS is a bad choice for minors. Would need ages to clear.
Well, I’ve heard that Loki’s are a good idea too. Is there any other?
You do of course realise that the Marauders get a bonus to tractor beam range & velocity, right?
Tengu i guess similar missile spammer tank for days no ranged webs but those are perk not a must.
Command BCs close 2nd.
Basically if you ever wondered what would happen if overtanked overDPS neut immune cruisers could dive in abyssal sites look no further than these solo pros hanging in minors wasting more time than needed to complete them.
Just make it so u can’t salvage a wreck while it is being tractored by another player.
This would make ninja salvagers work for it and give players a way to defend salvage.
…though not actually having to defend anything.
How about people start creating doctrines to counter these looters?
Looting and Salvaging are two different things bud. There are mechanics in place that allow you to deal with looters.
Dealing with salvagers is a bit more awkward try and get them to take aggro gank them or just beat them to the wrecks.
Could maybe add that once a wreck is being salvaged it can’t be tractored either if my original suggestion is not balanced enough.
Awe Honey look, you just solved your own problem. Congrats! \o/
The problem with your tractor option is that the looters (or whatever we want to call them) will just drop their own boxes to take advantage of that mechanic.
You are not making any sense at all a salvager can drop a can all he wants it would have sod all effect on what I just suggested.