Wreck/Loot Thieves: an Abused Mechanic With an Easy Fix

Hi everyone. As a player from 2003, I know EVE has always strived for game balance. However, an unbalanced game mechanic exists with no ability to counter. And as you know, any mechanic with no ability to counter usually gets abused leading to player frustration and players quitting. Let me try to explain:

But before I do, know that I am a part-time suicide ganker and I expect no sympathy. This isn’t about me; it’s about an existing game mechanic that’s being abused that can easily be rectified. Just please hear me out…

As you know, suicide gankers often attack players as they approach stations in highsec space (i.e. Jita). The attackers always lose their ships, the victims sometimes lose their ships, and a wreck is created when they do. Everything works as intended.

However, we’re seeing more players sit where the wrecks occur, often using bots or scripts to instantly grab the loot and then instantly dock. They DO get suspect status, which means they CAN be attacked, but because they are allowed to dock instantly, they never face consequences. I can give you a whole list of players who do this. Some run scripts and others don’t, but they risk nothing and take everything. Completely unbalanced.

As a solution, I propose some possible options:

  1. prohibit a loot thief’s ability to dock the same way you prohibit docking for ships who aid an attacker. No need for a Concord response, but don’t let the thief dock for 5 or 10 minutes. At least that way you give people the ability to attack the thieves when they try to escape. Otherwise, they loot other people’s wrecks and escape retribution safely and instantly. An anti-docking mechanic already exists for pilots who use weapons near a station. You can easily implement that in this scenario too.

  2. only allow the attacker and his fleet/corp mates [revised addition: or the victim and his fleet/corp mates] to loot the wreck for the first 15 seconds. That way you stop the bots/macros from instantly looting the wrecks and docking.

  3. implement the ability to activate kill rights against a thief the same way you can against a ganker. This is probably the most useless option since a thief will just dock and wait out the kill rights anyway. Please consider this option as a distant 3rd place when it comes to actual usefulness.

As I said earlier, I don’t expect sympathy here. But if nothing changes, everyone will just sit at the same spot all day like they do now, steal other people’s wrecks, and then dock immediately without any risk of loss. This allows an infinite reward with zero risk – a huge imbalance – and I know EVE doesn’t promote imbalance like that.

5 Likes

I dislike the second point, as it would prevent a legitimate player just as well as a scripted account.

I think giving loot thieves a weapons timer (1 minute no docking or jumping gates) could work for a bit.
Although a bot would probably just be adapted to activate a WCS, warp to a safe, and cloak for a minute before docking up and unloading the loot.
Extra steps to be scripted but would probably be solved fairly quickly.

Seems weird for CCP to not be able to check if these accounts are automated, given how long they are there, doing their thing.

2 Likes

Good point on option 2. I will revise that to include the victim and his fleet/corp mates as possible wreck looters since they have as much right to it as anyone. Good thinking and thank you.

In the end, it only makes sense to give interested parties a fighting chance to claim or fight for what they want. As we know, looting someone else’s wreck DOES activate suspect status but it’s pointless if a thief can just dock instantly and risk nothing. Thanks again. :+1:

1 Like

All the interested parties (killer, friends of victim, random looters) should be able to loot the ship in my opinion.

What I do agree on is that there should be a possibility to fight the looter for that loot, which requires a change to stop instant docking after looting.

A 1-minute weapons timer or new ‘looting timer’ that stops players from docking after looting a wreck sounds good to me.

2 Likes

Tell you what.

Bring another couple of catalysts, and gank the intending loot thief first.

It’s not just all about risk-reward, it’s also about timing, so that other people take the risks and you get the rewards.

1 Like

“Bring another couple of catalysts, and gank the intending loot thief first.”

I appreciate the idea but it’s really not possible. In Jita (for example), the Concord response is near immediate so you can’t hit them with a preemptive strike. They just sit there in tanky praxis and orcas all day…

  • loot someone else’s wreck,
  • dock immediately,
  • wait out suspect timer,
  • repeat

All day, every day. No risk, all reward. A lure for RMTs for sure.

I’ve actually seen the number of people doing this increase so even my posting this here is making the problem worse. Maybe the additional bodies will draw more scrutiny to the problem.

3 Likes

Bring more catalysts.

Or cry more.

It’s up to you.

Your opinion is noted. Thanks

1 Like

Emergent gameplay is a thing.

Your tears are sweet.

You correct, by sitting right on the undock point in Jita, gankers are able to passive bump ships exiting the station. Passive bumping is basically a tracking enhancer and stasis, of sorts, due to the bump causing the ship to slow down while approaching the align point to warp out, which allows the ganker to get more damage on the target while the bump impacts the align and re-align times that further benefits the gankers.

There needs to be a timer for loot cans left behind after a gank. When the gank occurs the loot can would not be able to be looted by anyone for ten seconds, then after ten second, anyone is allowed to loot the can as the loot can turns blue, a skills contest of who can get the loot first. The parameter set above would only take place within five km of an NPC station or NPC gate.

Ganker’s shouldnt be allowed to be the only ones able to loot the wreck after a gank, which is basically free loot.

The only drawback would be is that the player or players who loot the gankers target wreck would receive a 15 day kill right assigned to them that the ganker can use or sell.

seems you contradict yourself here , both statements cannot be true .

a short timer would be fine , but be careful what you wish for . you’d have a limited engagement with the loot thief , which is exactly what they wanted :slight_smile: this spot reserved for you to come back and cry about that if it’s ever implemented …

I’d go for the simple solution to add a 1-minute non-docking timer to any fresh suspect timer, would greatly help with killrights as well.

The only concern is FW, non-militias get suspect when they enter a plex, they won’t be able to chase someone who warps out and jumps a stargate. Not sure if that would be a big issue that would need to be adressed, I believe in 99% of all cases you won’t catch that one anyway if he managed to jump a gate…

2 Likes

Guys, no need to tell me to ‘cry more’ or whatever. I have no reason to cry… I’ve spent plenty of time stealing wrecks from other people and docking immediately to face zero consequences. It’s simply a poor mechanic ripe for abuse (and I’ve abused it too).

The crux is this: stealing from a wreck DOES make you a suspect today… great… but because you can dock instantly it carries no real weight or repercussion. Why not make being a suspect slightly more punitive and disallow them to dock for a while? Otherwise, suspect status is virtually meaningless. Proposed solution: disallow looting suspects docking for a period of time (seems to have some consensus backing).

Second, I have no idea why a corp mate or fleet mate would become a suspect for looting a friend’s wreck to begin with. We share hangars, we share ships, we share items… surely we should be able to share wrecks and loot. Proposed solution: if a corp mate or fleet mate of the attacker or victim loots a wreck, don’t make them a suspect.

That’s all I’m crying about :rofl:

1 Like

Avoid Jita like the plague.

Just like a roach, by.

Then it’s working as intended.
Stealing loot is PvP, no “abuse”.

Being able to dock up after gabking on a station is interring in the fight that all Capsuleers are at least guaranteed to engage in, once the thief steals from the can.

Once a can has been flipped and loot stolen from, a non-docking timer needs added. A timer of five minutes + the inability to not cloak, once a thief steals from a loot can along with the normal timer should end most station ganks.

I dont think security status is lowered if you flip a can, but at least a .1% in security status loss should be awarded to the thief as well every time the thief steals.

Don’t forget to add your ID 10 T permit to your biography either.

1 Like

To your point, if it WAS pvp, then the thief wouldn’t be able to immediately dock using current pvp mechanics.

If he’s using current PvP mechanics then he’s PvPing.
The fact that he “can” do that negates your perception of what a thief is in EvE. There are no jails in New Eden, just mechanics to use so he didn’t steal anything that the game is designed to be had by whatever means allowed by said mechanics.
There is no abuse there.

2 Likes

The jet can would not have been ejected if the gank hadnt taken place. Therefore the jet can from the ganked ship should never automatically become the property of the person who ganked the ship.

The jet that has been ejected due to the ship exploding, for whatever reason, is part of the crime scene and cannot be collected by anyone until Concord clears the jet can after 5 minutes.