Salvage / Loot Mechanics

I would like to suggest a redesign to the salvage and loot mechanics, according to the lore, salvage is supposedly a highly skilled profession albeit not necessary lucrative, it’s more like scavenging…in the Millennium Falcon or Serenity.

In the current shape, Eve’s loot comes too easy, and there’s no need nor incentives for people to really looking into actually salvaging. The nerf to the gun mining needed not be in place or to such a high extent if this idea is considered. Also, this would in theory increase immersion overall, cause concerns for risk/reward assessment and opportunity for more localised conflicts between individual or small groups of players.

So my suggestion is as follows:

  1. Fitted modules should never magically appear in a jettisoned container fashion and become immediately ready to loot, PC or NPC all alike. They must be accessed via salvage modules or drones (after all, you are kind of required to cut through the wreck and retrieve the modules in reality)

This means ratting/farming anomalies still requires some ships to forego their high slot(s)/drone bandwidth, or have support to get their loot lottery if they want to get lucky at faction/officer module drops. Also prolongs players time in space for potential player pirates encounters (pvp)

Also, this would give industrial players incentives to develop actual salvaging profession and providing it to other players in the form of (SaaS) Salvaging as a Service, which really died down when lucrative loot contents with no salvaging skill required made the profession itself obsolete (ProSynergy is an example), which to certain extents are negative effects to Eve’s ecosystem.

  1. Loots in the form of cargo hold remains that survived the explosion should be accessed via a new form of hacking module, and be accessible by anyone like salvaged to wrecks, this type of hacking doesn’t initiate mini game, but if one wants to open cargohold seal without its contents vaporize or suffocate in the vacuum of space, for only the ships original owner has the access codes (yes, even after jettison), they better make sure they establish safe passage before transferring cargos to their own ship.

Now, it’s up for debate how criminal flagging would work and create more conflicts, it should be more fun there’s no need to neck wreck ownership, instead, you for your ship right for the job, you can salvage/Loot anything, you want to ninja highsec ganked wrecks for their hard work, go ahead. Get flagged for PvP like looting a yellow wreck now, fine, but you have the same chance as looting the wreck as any other players including the one that blows it up, and if they can’t catch you, you made your first step as a professional ninja that actually need to have real “Ninja” skills. This can be only for cargohold hacks though, if you are lucky to salvage the wreck and got an officer module that was fitted b4 it became part of wreck, probably keep it as no criminal flagging cause this creates more follow up dramas and cutting modules from metal scrapes in space compared to hacking a sealed container…probably can still be considered legal like it is now.

  1. MTU should automatically still does its job auto looting wrecks but not fitted modules, which still requires salvaging modules/drones (This assumes they have built-in hacking access to the sealed compartments) they do not salvage still, else this would negate the need of the entire salvaging profession at this point. However, instead of baiting players to participate in shootout by shooting at the MTU, they should be made hackable by hacking modules, this time, like hacking sites, should initiate mini game, once successful, the hacker should be granted access to a portion of the contents stored within the MTU (perhaps randomly), if the hacker decided to remove/transfer any of the contents out of the said MTU, only then he/she shall be criminally flagged for PvP (much like spawns that work in mission, Cargo Delivery). Thus in essence, just like the siphoning unit, except this requires active play, not passive.

This is just something I thought would spice up Eve a little bit, if there are enough interests from the community, I sure it could be polished for some exciting new experience for the sneaky type players.

While I really like this idea it would likely require re-coding a large portion of the core loot mechanics in the game. I doubt it’s something that CCP would be willing to invest in for immersion.

Tnx for reply, I guess #1 might be easy to do though, essentially that part is just playing with loot table, what pops up in the wreck container and what pops up when salvager successfully accessed it. That alone might already change significantly how ppl might adapt with somewhat different play style / approach, since it’s PvE, PvP, allsec affected.

I’m sorry I don’t think this is a good idea. It sounds rather over-complicated for what the game is.

Also - salvaging wouldn’t give you working modules, it would give you ‘parts’. Parts are then used to construct modules.

I think this idea has more merrit to it than most, but there is a mistake in its premises:

Even if the lore says othervise, salvaging is the most lucrative profession a new player can get into in the firs 2 days. I have seen many new players raking in near 200m isk/h salvaging after ratting supercarriers. In my corporation new guys only need to play for a week or 2 to get the isk (not the skills) for their own super, and this is all possible due to curent salvaging mechanics.

Another thing to note about this suggestion that was not completely clear is what kind of wrecks it affects.
OP writes about fitted modules and the content of cargohold separately and this confuses me, as the dropped loot has so far been the same thing, no mater were they fitted or not. if the suggestion only affects fitted modules, and as rats dont have fitted modules, it would only affects player wrecks that had some modules fit to it. So an unfitted itteron hauling modules would not be affected, while an fitted iteron would. If the suggestion works on all dropped loot the same way, then talking about fitted modules only serves to confuse the reader.

As I understood (guessed) OP propably ment that to get to the loot on a wreck a player needs to activate an module on it. MTU:s would still loot wrecks and would be hackable to get to get to its content. Then OP suggests new modules for this, but I see no reason why the old salvaging and hacking modules wouldent work for wrecks and MTUs.

All in all this could be a change that spiced up the game a bit. Altho the only scenario I see affecting gameplay is looting after fleet battles, as in every other situation where the player is looting, he is already most likely salvaging as well. So the greedy players could un-ironicaly fit salvagers instead of turrets on their dps ships and get shouted by FC for salvaging in midle of a battle. The MTU change wouldent matter much as they could still be blown up to get to the loot, if they dont hapen to have a hacking module with them.

I have to agree, what a PITA this would be. In some cases CCP would even have to make ship changes because there would not be the right number of high slots or drone space.

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ZhaoMing, did you just write an small essay to say “wrecks should only be accessed via salvager and MTUs should be hackable”? If not, could you rephrase your idea a bit, so that it would be easier to understand it, please.

Are you replying to the right thread? This is not the one about refitting.

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I like this one, quite crafty, but well thought. That would create yet another career-niche

I have a question though; in the case of a pilot trying to loot his own wrecks (say after he’s been ganked, and before anyone else), does he have to undergo the same process of hacking, etc. to retrieve his cargo/mods?

You are introducing a new module need for ratters and that in turn will need to trigger other changes to maintain balance.

Right now the loot can be looted without a salvage module or drones.

2 if you include the hacking module.

Ah, now I get it. OP suggested new modules, I said that the old salvage and hacking module (+ skills) would do just fine.
Same would do for salvage drones, they would leave a can behind just as its happening now.

E: As for the idea itself, I dont have an strong opinion, I just tryed to understand what OPs idea was in the first place.

Sorry for the confusion, typing essay on tablet’s limited space isn’t easy.

Actually I don’t think new modules are needed, just the mechanics of what need to be used, and how they need to be used in order to access the right type of loot. Current salvager module/drones and hacking modules should just do the job fine, but how they should be used.

I not familiar with MTU blow up mechanics, I was under the impression that in reinforced mode, they shall be invulnerable for a little while.
Edit: just checked, I must have mixed this up with mobile depot. MTU don’t reinforce :stuck_out_tongue:

Well in this case, make mobile structures and custom offices all hackable

This is the actual idea, instead of combat ship that excel at looting/salvaging and combat at the same time, you now need to think about how you want to balance your fitting if doing it solo in 1 ship. You get yourself more exposed to potential dangers and hence, potentially more pew.

Retrieving fitted modules that survived the explosion still need salvaging module/drone to access, hah! Perhaps give them some random module structural dmg (like overheating) so you need to repair them back in station b4 reusing them.

However, he should not need to have to use the hacking module as he is the original owner and holds the key to his sealed cargo doors. Meaning he can come back in any ship (unfitted even, unless he wants to salvage “wreck”) just to loot the surviving cargohold. Gives him better chance at retrieving his own goods b4 other players does.

I know, the idea is you take existing loot that can just be picked up and force people to use 2 modules just to get the loot they already have now.

I think that’s it. Also for pvp.

Also IMO the KM should only be received for the one who salvages the wreck.
Victim receives a KM as soon as he dies, attacker does not receive a KM. Only salvager does. It can be shared, and if you open a KM into which you are, it adds to your collections. Also doable automatically through zkillboard (this way if I salvage a ship, I get the km and zkb just adds it to everybody who participated in the kill)

I was thinking about killmail integration as well, basically easiest way around is to have all fitted modules categorized as “destroyed” or isk lost by default (they are good as lost anyway if left untouched), that is, unless it got salvaged, but outside of current KM’s scope, but yes! Maybe salvager who eventually looted the wrecks can now have honorable mentions in similar form. Scavengers’ Trophies!

Oh shoot you guys are trolling me :blush:

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Actually I’m dead serious on the KM if this was to be an idea worth considering for implementation. Of course I don’t necessary agree salvager should get the KM, but assume this idea gets the green light, changes needed to be made on the KM to reflect the reworked mechanics (tbh, I don’t think it’s even technically challenging to implement nor complex changes, but should have somewhat significant impact)

And the reason is stated in the OP, current mechanics is old (perhaps 16 years old, I don’t know, but was always the same since I started Eve back in 2008), immersion breaking, illogical and these only got magnified with the introduction of new contents and so called balance passes that only reduces the loot table spawn chance (IMHO, lazy and cheating on devs part). I don’t agree with gun mining, but dealing with inflation via killing off contents instead of iterating on them to achieve enjoyable experience isn’t the right direction.

What I’m suggesting here is make it immersive, revive and recreate a lost professions that was once touted heavily as a feature of the top sandbox game. Also the risk-reward, increased chance for conflict, promote group play, if one is worried their ratting carrier suddenly need to give up combat ability to get Loots, then he/she better fleet up with someone or an alt or 2.

No new modules needed, just how current one needs to be changed (mechanics).

Also, an AiO - Jack of all trade ship/contents is for the lazy and risk adverse players and is a problem in many games, they are for minmaxers, predictably progressive and goes against the idea of sandbox.

In Eve, there are consequences, and the requirement for one to fit their ship to accordingly to excel at performing actions in game is always the idea promoted by devs as well as players.

Thus, I don’t see the argument against requiring players to use salvage bonused hulls, using salvage/Loot accessing modules and trading away their combat abilities convincing or should I say, somewhat ironic.

Terrible change, terrible reason.