Discord is a dangerous system, that a lot of people avoid for very good reasons.
If FC do not want to engage on these fora, they should have the courage to admit it and bin the fora. It is deplorable that they encourage people to post here, but then avoid it.
Your role as an overly defensive shill for them means you would be no loss.
Toodles.
The EVE HUD has been redesigned based on feedback and collaboration with the community and CSM.
so what csm do this year and where is the csm version hud
in a few years once i am allowed to run for it i will bring back the current hud if i can
many other setting is shared with one account, so i dont think they will change this
Is there allready any ETA when we could test the New ui?
No. Theyve not announced it.
I want CCP to do that work, not you. This is not your duty. It’s CCP’s duty to distribute this information on ALL THEIR COMMUNICATION platforms.
Personally, Discord can become an echo chamber far faster than a forum.
Official Forums generally require a more professional set up and programming and archiving system. They cost time and money to develop.
Reddit and Discord, the “systems” are fan built and curated. However, these are the easiest to abuse and or gatekeep or echo chamber. [Not saying that doesn’t happen on the forums either, but there is a bit more official “liability/accountability” if the owner of the official forum does something to its visitors.] Ironically the “concept of multiboxing having alts” is very pronounced in Discord. So alot of questions on the reality of how many people are giving feedback or honest perspectives is a huge problem in the game design sphere now.
This same issue is compounded by “bad faith actor” social engineering to get certain results in gameplay balance or new content.
Ideally we would like to see CCP/Fenris equally give weight to the playerbase on the official forums, and various social media sources. It is also telling that we have fan built or controlled social media avenues in Discord/Reddit and elsewhere that have more “weight” than any official CCP/Fenris created or curated or moderated social media channels or forums.
Going back to the issues inherent with the HUD, we are seeing a very odd issue where it feels like some feedback is coming from a very limited or cherrypicked “sliver” of the EVE playerbase. And we have this “tech hype” mentallity for the change without a deeper discussion of the pros and cons.
I know alot of people do not have the patience for debate or considerations of long term effects for videogame design. [The proverbial short term benefits versus long term costs and complications.]
I feel like the HUD changes are very “change for change sake” when minimalistic tuning and iteration actually would benefit the player base far more. And more clarity of feedback, and a carefully organized and sifted feedback sorting should be considered.
Visual preferences…vary from person to person. The main core of the issues is gameplay “skeleton” mechanics and where the UI doesn’t communicate to people. And alot of the HUD changes that have been thrown out, have little to no bearing on actual intuitive visual understanding and gameplay. Some of the most recent, HUD items I did point out the flaws of the game. Stuff I believed should have been in the game from the get go.
Personally I would be happy if Fenris Creation would directly update their forums…social media channels etc. Synchronized. Instead of it being buried in little mine shafts of one post here or there, and we are trying to figure out what they want.
My opinion is this new UI looks horrible, seems unintuitive and will make playing the game harder for no good reason.
The current UI is serviceable after years of work on it and in my experience CCP/Fenris - you normally make the game worse when you do these types of management led reforms of core game elements.
Much of the game functionality was better in 2005-ish when I started - including many UI elements that don’t exist today such as a granular standings system, custom UI colour settings, an in game browser you could code in, a jukebox with music worth a listen, historic market and wallet data (that wasn’t wiped every few months - no stupid oversized circle graphic of income - real data), a character sheet that didn’t lag loading with information that wasn’t buried in nests of menus and subtabs.
So much good functionality gets lost every time these UI changes happen - how about returning some great old functionality that was removed instead? Revive the standing system, fix POS or do something useful with the dev-time project spend, not making UI changes for change’s sake.
Wisdom tells me more good things will be lost as a result of this UI change than new good things will be added. I will hope for the best but completely expect the worst. Cheers.
edit: for spelling errors.
This.
I personally really like to debate and exchange arguments, backed up by facts and experience. I have left every “public” discord i tried to participate because ‘discussions’ there are so terrible to endure for someone with a certain niveau, it’s disgusting.
Sry to say it, but discord is totally unfit to have proper feedback discussions. It’s like a jungle where the most aggressive one-line spammers succeed in giving the impression they had a point.
I like that the major concerns from this thread are at least being acknowledged.
"proportional HP, heat and module states, screen space, the minimap, and whether the visual style feels distinctly EVE, along with some great ideas for improving the designs. "
What concerns me is that they say “The community response has been really positive overall”.
Well, if you consider getting a lot of constructive feedback and criticism positive, I guess that’s technically true.
But if I add that to a cherry-picked handful of positive responses, I get the feeling they’re trying to make it sound far better than it is.
I can’t shake the feeling that we’re being manipulated into a herd mentality: “see? The majority thinks it’s awesome!” and then, people being group animals, will feel inclined to follow that consensus.
At least I can draw a glimmer of hope from your emphasis on customizability. I do hope that this means that all the look, feel and function of the old HUD can be preserved while simply giving us more options to tune it how we want it.
I truly hope you know what you’re doing, developers. I do. But this sort of fake hype, and the idea that we will eventually lose the old HUD forever, do not give me confidence.
As Ian Malcolm put it “boy, do I hate being right all the time”.
So please, by all means, I challenge you to prove my concerns wrong.
Kind regards,
Qi Shan, a concerned capsuleer with a heart for the mythos and technical side of EVE
There is also another problem as well. There is free discord and paid discord.
Some people have to pay to get their ideas that could be better elaborated on a forum, out there on a discord. And you get the wall of text reply. TLDR and etc.
The Free Discord mode is like 2000 words…give or take. So If you are dealing with the paid guys you can either get line spammed…or you get buried under Omnibus long tomes of digital War and Peace. [Tolstoy joke here.] You just wanted to ask a question…and you are sandwiched between Herr Professors massive 15 minute scroll bits. Thats when people mute someone usually like that. And its a horrible social media platform in some respects for information of elaborate context communication. (Not bad for voice…in some situations, and way too easily hacked and peoples accounts being locked out due to drama reporting entire servers. Lots of bots and scammers who work through discords to get to peoples wallets, kind of wild.)
So forums and Reddit…make more sense. Reddit is a weird situation, because people can gatekeep and even personalize a Reddit to not work like other Reddit channels so formating problems and loss of acces to ways to post does happen. Forums are better option because we can as in the HUD discussion. Show ideas…explain a few lines…then shift to a new line of context so the feedback is sensible. (There is an honor system and review by forum owners…so there is some level of fairness involved.)
We are hearing there is some “feedback”…but from whom is a very big question at this moment. But I hope to see their next iteration on how the system will work and lets see if they took any of the concerns and considerations to heart.
Its a learned mindset after a while in EVE.
EVE has alot of untapped potential for a 20 year old game.
But you learn very fast to be skeptical about anything being overpromoted or hyped up. I generally immediately go defensive or ask questions about the flaws there of. An Optimist will say the Glass is Half-Full, A Pessimist will say the Glass is Half-Empty. A realist asks…Did someone drink this? Although if it was me…are we sure the glass is not upside down in our perspective? (Or are we?)
I am curious why this change was promoted, and who or what the feedback was that started this.
Some ideas could have just been done with the current “medallion” and just a few tweaks; and testing.
But yes…alot of people right now are very hesistant on this front after the last few years.
100% agree.
The current HUD works, it’s not perfect but it works.
All of the suggestions I’ve seen, thus far, don’t appear to add any functionality but just more flashing lights and more wasted space.
I can see this being a very retrograde step
EVE is the definition of wasted potential.
Seriously, with a bit of love to detail and depth, understanding issues from the pov of regular players and the priority of long term visions over quick bandaid solutions, player numbers could be 5 times as high.
And yes…EVE should have been far far larger by a mile and a half; Than many other IPs it ironically has survived.
And EVE sadly to say…has survived because of a series of “exodus” populations from games that collapsed around the same time it was starting. [Earth and Beyond especially stands out to me…because the devs there…gave referral links directly to players to EVE Online as they were shutting down their game. Which as a long time Westwood Games and Command and Conquer fan kind of ties these two IPs together.]
And I agree (On wasted potential), its also kind of hilarious when you can backtrack games like Freelancer and Earth and Beyond and you see some of the ideas that these games had…and their influence on the surviving concepts. X/EVE Online/ Star Trek Online/ Elite Dangerous etc. And how these older games had alot of concepts more thought out than modern EVE online.
EVE could be something so deep…for its 20 years. And I feel like its more of a kiddy pool caricature of what could potentially be. There should be thousands of ship hulls. There should be content with a variety of niches. And more personalization of the HUD mind you to each faction and their ships. Or a universal HUD for ease of learning and application of ideas. But as of currently there isn’t that level of depth.
The HUD situation is an example that disconnect. And wanting to modernize to a more cohesive long term vision is laudable, but I also see the “change for change sake” situation as a problem.
Audio is under-used as a tool to communicate important information.
The UI is already cluttered and full of information that needs to be processed visually. Direct communication in plain English (or language of user) bypasses a considerable amount of cognitive load.
Currently “Warp Drive Active” and “The Capacitor Is Empty” are the only useful combat messages I can think of that can help communicate what is going on. The various noises and alarms for ship / capacitor health are abstract and remembering what sounds means what while they are all going off at the same time in the heat of combat is an unnecessary cognitive load on the user.
Examples:
“Warp Drive Scrambled”
“Shields 50%”
“Weapon Systems Compromised”
“The Capacitor Is Being Drained”
“Siege Cycle Ending”
“Module Overload Imminent”
“A Propulsion Module Has Burned Out”
“Drones Under Attack”
The information is still there on screen if thats how you want to receive it - this is simply an aid to help reinforce what the player decides is the most important info. Players can customise which messages they want to enable / disable and set a buffer for how spaced-out the messages are and to what extent they repeat.
With the coming integration of AI it could be possible to eventually give verbal commands to the game but this is a whole other can of worms and probably not relevant right now.
Reloading is another…that is missing. That is visual…and that can immediately make things really unpleasant if you didn’t realize it by being overloaded by actions in game.
changes to justify the paycheck.
That goes for absolutely everything once money enters the game. And I’m not talking about greed for profits (though it has its part). I mean the day-to-day dealings of paying your workers, buying and upkeeping hardware, maintaining a building to house it all – running a business – that all needs to be taken care of before the game gets extra stuff that only maybe 10% of the player base cares strongly about. It always averages out. You don’t get the extra neat special stuff because that would in all likelihood mean increasing the subscription cost, and there’s only so high you can drive that.
You get what you’re paying for. It goes both ways. I’m pretty sure Hilmar and others at Fenris have bigger dreams for this game than what it is too. EVE could and should be a deeper game. But your average EVE player doesn’t care, because they’re not willing to pay 75 EUR/USD a month to drive it there.
