There’s quite a lot of fallback to the idea of what “real Caldari” would do, say, or think here… enough to drag us far off the original discussion point.
A shame that this seems to need to happen so often…
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Clearly, Real Caldari argue about what Real Caldari would do.
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And yet the majority of the Megacorporations of the State have voted in favor of open borders and free trade.
Ah well. Not that you’ll listen.
In any case, pilots, let’s not derail this thread any more with that person, and get back to the matter of the Ishuk-Raata request for clarification.
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So much to catch up on and respond to…
I’ll start by stating the obvious: It’ll come as no surprise to learn that I support any initiative that seeks to end oppressive Federal policy within Syndicate space.
Yes, I use that word deliberately, because that’s what this is: Oppression.
Federal policy towards the Syndicate is possibly one of the greatest motivators when it comes to the wider independence movement, so let me touch on a few points briefly:
It’s true that vast number of people, proud of their Intaki heritage, live and work happily throughout the Federation. And yes, many appear to fit the cultural stereotype of being more adept at diplomacy and tact than others (whatever would the Federation do without us?), and so are employed by various departments within the Federal government.
But “disloyal kindred”? They were exiled, James. No matter how much the Federation may be unable to truly let them go, they are not Federal citizens. How can they be loyal to a state that is foreign to them?
In another discussion you said:
Not quite as little as some of us would like of course, but as you’re familiar with Vremaja Idama’s work, let me quote a discussion he was involved in, where he shared his personal experiences of the Intaki Uprising, and how some felt… encouraged to be more loyal to the Federation.
Vremaja Idama > We were afraid of those “in power”.
Jon Engel > interesting
Vremaja Idama > Fear is not a way to run any civilisation. It breeds distrust and rebellion.
Jon Engel > I think fear is propagating itself amongs our people again.
Vremaja Idama > The threat of violence cannot bring peace. Only empathy and understanding can bring peace
Jon Engel > Was violenced threatend by those in power to the Intaki?
Vremaja Idama > Never threatened openly. But when our fellow Federation citizens were bombarded, it was not a huge leap of reasoning to believe that any others expressing rebellious attitudes would be similarly dealt with.
How many of those “loyal” Intaki, living and working throughout the Federation are Reborn like Vremja Idama? How many of them too remember the arrests and the reprisals?
We are known for our stoicism, James. How many Intaki continue to hold their tongue not out of loyalty, but out of fear?
But of course, those were the days of President Duvalier and the Ultra-Nationalists. The Federation would never behave like that again. Only… well the I-RED inquiry we’re all discussing here is regarding one of Duvalier’s policies. An Ultra-Nationalist policy, from the darkest days in our peoples’ history, that the Federation government continues to actively enforce to this day.
But not only do they enforce the policy, they attempt to justify it.
I honestly believe this is exaggerated. It’s just too convenient for the Federation to maintain the status quo, both in terms of Syndicate policy, but also for organisations like the FIO and their activities.
The circumstances of the Upwell Consortium’s creation gives clear evidence that those ties are not so strong after all.
Chairman Arteu of the Upwell Consortium went on record to say, “The Upwell Consortium board is grateful to now have the opportunity of working with ORE on a sound legal footing, free of the taint of gross criminality, piracy and terrorism that are the marks of the so-called Serpentis Corporation.”
But you’re correct, Andreus, it would be somewhat ‘career limiting’ for a Federal Senator to push for policy change towards the Syndicate, when we consider the anti-Syndicate rhetoric that’s been pushed for years. This rhetoric itself should be challenged more, as it encourages wider prejudice towards all Intaki in some quarters, sometimes going so far as to manifest itself as outright discrimination. Solitude is rife with it, for example, but its evident elsewhere too.
To finish, I believe that despite the challenges that will present themselves, the current Federal policy is unacceptable, and it is right to challenge it with the objective of seeing it end as soon as possible.
The normalisation of opportunity within Syndicate space can only be a good thing, and should offer economic alternatives to black/grey market activities that cause the Federation so much discomfort.
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You flatter me too much, Mr. Nomistrav. My knowledge of the issues at hand stem from being born and raised in Syndicate my whole life, despite my ethnicity being traced back to Gallente Prime ancestry. Generations ago my adventure-hungry great grandparents opted to move out to Syndicate with the Intaki Five Thousand. Their primary motivator was to join and offer support to people they empathized with and supported, but in doing so they also satisfied a desire they had to live out on the frontier. The people of the Intaki Syndicate are as much a family as I could ever ask for.
Getting back to the topic at-hand, I would also like to express my greatest gratitude to Mr. Bataav. Your words never cease to be packed full of wisdom and grace.
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That’s related neither to what I’ve said, nor to what this topic is about.
Right. Right.
In any case, pilots, let’s move on.
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To echo our esteemed Mahesha, what an awful lot to catch up on and respond to.
The Waschi Uprising was a regrettable incident in which some fringe radicals disgraced the Caldari by targeting the Intaki community there with the end goal of removing them from Kamokor IV. But let us remember that the Intaki had the full support of the Caldari authorities, the Navy and in the end requested that their former commander, a Caldari named Muriya Mordu, and his command staff who were also Caldari, for assistance which was duly granted. In the end, the uprising was crushed and those radicals cast to the four winds in a joint operation between the nascent Legion and the Caldari Navy. So yes… we did fail to prevent this incident from getting out of hand. That is on us. However, don’t you even try and say that we did nothing to help, or haven’t done so since to avoid a repeat of that situation.
Just because an activity or service is able to be provided, doesn’t mean that it is justified under the basis of ‘someone else will do it if we don’t’. And I wouldn’t say that we are envious of the Syndicate’s activities, considering that the illegal exchanges of scrip directly weaken the authority that the Megacorporations have over their own currency and therefore affect the citizenry in terms of their wages being depreciated in value. The Guristas do also have scrip exchanges, however it is undeniable that the Syndicate run one of the largest exchanges, and it is equally as deplorable to see the stability of our nation as something you flippantly disregard. There are two major incidents that come to mind with the Syndicate, one was during the latter half of the last century in YC56 when the Syndicate processed a large amount of CBD Scrip on their unlawful exchanges that devalued the ISK to Scrip ratio, it led to a run on the banks due to fear that the average workers savings would be reduced in value further, which necessitated loans to be drawn which precluded any major corporate investment by CBD until the mid YC60s. The second is far more recent, involving KK, in which their corporate scrip was reduced in value by 2% blamed on the very same exchanges, leading to severe unrest and turmoil in KK territories. So yes, I do feel strongly on the issue, and it is not unfair of me or any other Caldari to do so. Oh, and my critique of the Syndicate is not that of a critique of the Intaki, despite their name being in the title. The Guristas are not considered Caldari, I don’t see the Syndicate as reflective or representative of the Intaki in general.
Okay, that isn’t what I was trying to say but pray go ahead and twist my words as something they are not. My intention was that the Intaki homeworld system, as in ‘Intaki’, be withdrawn as a contestable system as it is currently under the terms of the CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act which outlines the territory able to be fought over between the capsuleer auxiliaries of the major empires. Additionally, the Federation Navy should be permitted to maintain enough of a presence to raise the security status from its presence 0.1 status to 0.5 in an attempt to check the rampant piracy. It was an attempt by me to sympathise over the position of your nation’s homeworld being in low-security space, and I’ll try and remember that you are not representative of all Intaki that make up 20% of the Federation’s populace, especially as many Intaki citizens currently serve in various capacities within the Federal bureaucracy, the administration as well as countless Presidents of the Federation being of Intaki ancestry. I’ll also pretend to ignore your fickle attempts at attacking my historical knowledge when it would appear your command of history is at best, minimal. Who are you, that you don’t even know your history?
But let us view your proposal in hypothetical terms, now that you’ve mentioned it. If the Intaki member states in Placid were to secede from the Union, splendid. Couple of issues there chum. You’ve got no standing navy, which is critical for anti-piracy operations and to preserve the integrity of this new state you have founded. The Caldari State would not likely offer your new authority protectorate status without demanding concessions in the form of a contract, the Republic has their hands full dealing with their own problems to take on a new region. That leaves the Empire… and I think we all know would happen should they see your people as an easy target. Your entire security planning it seems is based on Mordu’s Legion remaining there in perpetuity, which is an inherently dangerous plan to rely solely on mercenaries which can be bought off to whomever is the highest bidder. Have you forgotten the Idama you so venerate as a force for secession was once a target for termination by the Legion?
In any case, I will digress. I will conclude this part with a speech from Vrejama Idama on the Intaki and the Federation:
“As I have said before, I believe that the best road to prosperity for the Intaki people as a whole is within the Federation. Standing alone, we would be a very small fish in a very large pond. We don’t have the advantage of many years of military buildup that the Caldari had at the time of their breakaway. The Intaki of Placid do not even have a standing navy. The Caldari, for all their good qualities, are quite bound by their own culture, and do not take readily to outsiders within their borders. The Minmatar Republic can barely retain its own people who flock to the Federation, and the Amarr. I won’t even start on how they would treat us.” - Vrejama Idama
As for Syndicate itself? Captain Ixirus is entirely correct with his assessment that it would be limiting at best, career ending at worst for Federal Senators to support a notion to improve relations with an entity such as the Intaki Syndicate. Try selling that to Solitude, a region which has historically and currently endured countless pirate raids encroaching on their sovereign territory to terrorise the colonists, including one major example in YC13 when a major pirate lord invaded Solitude from Syndicate which was only repulsed by the intervention of the Federation Navy, the catalyst for the famously independent region to join the Federation. Try selling that to the Intaki, having their identity attainted with the criminality of the region which has led to them becoming targets for extremists inside and outside the Federation. Try selling that to the average Federal citizen that has seen their security infringed upon by innumerable Serpentis actions such as the theft of the FNS Molyneux and the Nyx-class supercarrier.
I’m sure there is more I could say, but I shall refrain from doing so for the time being.
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well damn
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Humorous. The venerable actions of Muryia Mordu and the Caldari Navy. Interesting that the Caldari Navy seems so… tacked on. Almost as tacked on as the merit with which it is claimed. Yes, the Caldari authorities in question did let it get out of hand, but it was not the Caldari authorities who came running to the aid of those in Waschi city - at least, not until it was already well out of hand.
In fact, was it not the case that Mordu found some bureaucratic barriers in his attempts to quell the uprising? So much so that he and his battalions had to operate under the flag of mercenaries to even operate in the area? Fitting of the State to go out of their way to help by preventing help. Even more fitting that they would try to coax him with a stately position for his efforts…
I do find the Syndicate reflective and representative of the Intaki - just as much as those Intaki within the State and those Intaki within the Federation. My people are diverse, and though I detest the idea of Intaki who would subject themselves to the manipulations of both, I respect their decision to do so. However, the home world and the Syndicate are entirely different matters altogether. I do not feel that the problems of the State should even be considered by the Syndicate. As others have said here, I will echo: The Syndicate did what they had to to survive, and because of those decisions they are condemned.
So why should I expect that any other sovereign nation work to better their position in the world? It is clear that they will not, so then I must respect that the Intaki of the Syndicate would do what they must to better themselves - even if it is at the State’s expense. Perhaps - perhaps - if the State had been more involved in the affairs of the Intaki, they might not have turned to the black market as a means of carving out a living.
But then that would insinuate the Caldari care about the Intaki at all, would it not…?
Ah yes, who am I, but an Intaki born on Intaki Prime who chose to be a secessionist after seeing that we had no place among either the Federation or the State… Who am I that I woefully do not know enough of my own history to counter the prattling of a Statesman who does…
No, Intaki Prime thrives on its position in the world. Low-security is what forged us: made us who we are. The Assembly turned the Federation Navy away because they saw early on what dangers lurked in co-operation with the Gallente. They denied the potential of a bustling world with comparatively low piracy and crime in exchange for their independence, because as much as the Federation would babble about “freedom” and “liberty”, they seem to do everything in their power to prevent their member states from expressing it…
There was a time I wanted to see Intaki Prime under adequate protection, but now I know that its comes with faults that would destroy the stone. Perhaps Intaki, as a contestable system, is for the best. It at least keeps the State and the Federation fighting over it as a territory instead of we as a people. For that I am still grateful.
Strange… I do not believe I ever brought the Idama into this matter - let alone as a “force for secession”… There again, I bring evidence to the decision of the Intaki Assembly. We would find our own way, for better or worse. Death brings rebirth as does everything. Part of the cycle, as is it all. Secession is merely one part of that cycle and with it would come rebirth.
Ah yes, Vremaja Idama… One of many Idama, you see. His voice was an important one, surely, and even then his voice was measured and tempered by the oppression of the Federation. This much was readily identifiable in personal correspondence - less in the public view, as the quote by Bataav above illustrates. Even Vremaja must have known that if the Intaki did not side with the Federation, we would have suffered a similar fate to those others who had tried…
Intriguing how the Intaki of the Federation are both brought up as a counter-point in that they are wholly separate from the Intaki of the Syndicate, yet are so easily roped into having their identity assumed by them. Are the Intaki of the Federation entirely divorced from the rest or do they languish in the image of their criminal brothern? A fascinating conundrum, to both hold the keys to someone’s independence but share their fallout.
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Bataav my good fellow, you are indeed the “silver-tongued devil”.
One of these days we should sit for a while and discuss… olives.
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