[IDEA] Name Change Certificate

[Hug_Motsu]

@Nevyn_Auscent

A small handful of people on the forums are not a great majority.

actually, asuming that the majority is for a “name change” certificate is the correct assumption.
Why?

1. IRL in every(?) country you can change your legal name, more then once and noone is ranting about this.
2. only a small amount of “eve diehard players” is around to even justify this “no re-name” policy. (its a policy that cater only to the diehards)
3. name changing and having the old name visable in bio crush every logical reasoning as to why not allow name change.

Thus.
someone who says no to this idea is just saying no becouse of emotional reasoning.
and the wast majority of eve players do not interact with such strong emotions towards eve.

so it is infact true to assume the majority of people are behind a re-name certificate.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Hug_Motsu

actually, asuming that the majority is for a “name change” certificate is the correct assumption.

Citation required to prove this.

Simply saying ‘It’s logical because x’ doesn’t prove anything.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Nevyn_Auscent

Citation required to prove this.

Simply saying ‘It’s logical because x’ doesn’t prove anything.

no citations required for people who are able to think for them self.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Oh look, how surprising, you immediately jump to name calling.
What an unexpected turn of events given your clear logical ability.

[Hug_Motsu]

well… citations is not needed at all and in this case its quite timeconsuming to find a citation - and if it where to be found, you and others would just bash on the source.

its quite clear you thought you was smart asking for citation , as you know its unfruitful for the discussion… and then you got tilted by an simple conclusion and are now offtopic proving you are saying no becouse of emotional reasoning.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Not at all,
You are trying to use appeal to popularity as an argument here, when there is no evidence to suggest any which way what the majority think.
I could just as easily say clearly the majority are against name changes, as they don’t want to have to spend time & effort in EVE to keep track of who is who, since they aren’t as strongly invested.
And it’s got just as much logic behind it as your claim.

The reality is that we have no idea what the majority think of this argument, therefore any appeal to popularity or claim of majority support is fake.
Which means that debating based on that is a false debate, and needs calling out as such.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Nevyn_Auscent

You are trying to use appeal to popularity as an argument here, when there is no evidence to suggest any which way what the majority think.

the evidence i have suggested are:

1. name changes occur irl without any public outcry.
2. ALL reasons “not to allow” presented in this thread gets demolished by a line of text in the bio.
3. name change certificates existed on asian servers, and no one complained about that.
   coincedently, i know of no one that objects to ccp beeing able to rename their charachters.
4. only a handful of old eve players are against this becouse of emotional reasons that blocks them from seeing evidence 2.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

1. IRL is not a game.
2. No they don’t, you simply saying ‘They get demolished’ is not true.
3. Chinese server was very different.
4. Nice way to dismiss peoples arguments and show that you have no intention of arguing in any kind of good faith when you attack the speaker, not their words.

So… Yeah.
It’s funny how most of those against this have posted actual concerns and issues, while most of those for the name change just post ‘because I want it and you guys are mean bittervets who hate change’ or stuff like that.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Nevyn_Auscent

It’s funny how most of those against this have posted actual concerns and issues

No actual concern or issues will arise for anyone.
see evidence 4

when they see a new neutral in space - or a new corp member or whatever…
people who care enough will click on the name and see info and see “oh yeah its this OLD dude, he just changed names!” other people who are not so invested, will just see another player on overview.

its no actual concern or issue.
you are wrong.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Hug_Motsu

people who care enough will click on the name and see info and see “oh yeah its this OLD dude, he just changed names!”

And they are already on grid with you shooting you because you spent 15 seconds reading.
So… Yeah, it’s not that simple.

[Hug_Motsu]

@Nevyn_Auscent

And they are already on grid with you shooting you.
So… Yeah, it’s not that simple.

lol. well if so, what does it matter?

Sure at a certan level, know thy enemy.
but in eve, its more know their ship, guns, optimal, tranversal etc etc etc…

knowing WHO. is not that big of an pvp advantage as you may think, and when we have characthers that can be bought and injected etc etc…

knowing WHO gets jammed to the last spot of “usefull information” in a battle.
and more often then not, you will only end up playing yourself with information of WHO.

SO NO NAMECHANGING IS NOT A REAL CONCERN FOR ANYONE BUT BITTERVETS THAT ARE EMOTIONAL

[Nevyn_Auscent]

@Hug_Motsu

knowing WHO. is not that big of an pvp advantage as you may think

Knowing who often answers most of the other questions. Knowing who tells you their favourite ships, usual fits, typical tactics, likely allies.

So… um, yeah.
It matters.
Trying to pretend it doesn’t matter is just silly.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Hug_Motsu

actually, asuming that the majority is for a “name change” certificate is the correct assumption.
Why?

1. IRL in every(?) country you can change your legal name, more then once and noone is ranting about this.
2. only a small amount of “eve diehard players” is around to even justify this “no re-name” policy. (its a policy that cater only to the diehards)
3. name changing and having the old name visable in bio crush every logical reasoning as to why not allow name change.

Thus.
someone who says no to this idea is just saying no becouse of emotional reasoning.
and the wast majority of eve players do not interact with such strong emotions towards eve.

so it is infact true to assume the majority of people are behind a re-name certificate.

You have your assumption, I have mine.

I assume that the vast majority of EVE is neither in favour nor against name changes until asked that question. They simply won’t care until confronted with this choice. Lots of people don’t have an opinion about something until they’re asked about it, and even then only some people feel obliged to have an opinion. Some still won’t care.

It’s wrong to assume that all of those people who haven’t voiced their opinion have an opinion that supports your choice.

[Esnaelc_Sin_led]

@Nevyn_Auscent

Your claim of a majority was literally the only thing in your entire post on topic.
Stating all the stuff you learnt that wasn’t part of the topic was nice, but didn’t need any kind of replies.
So yes, all I replied to was your claim of a majority behind you asking you to prove that this majority exists.

I’m pleased that you read the whole reply.

@Gerard_Amatin

If you read my first post in this thread, you’ll notice that ‘recognition’ is also an argument against your post.

I won’t continue now with the rest of the things you said, but please don’t assume that that means I agree with them. Thinking that “people who are silent agree with me” is going to lead to a lot of surprises if you keep doing that.

And if you had read the whole reply, you’d had noticed that i’m talking about this awreness as well, but not as a main argument.
I strongly believe that most of the people not replying are, for a great majority (yes, again), agree with this feature idea.
My strong belief is based on social studies stating what i said earlier : “people tend to express opinions and feelings more when those are negative, and even more so on social medias on the internet when their identity can be easily hidden”.
Plus, i like surprises.

[Esnaelc_Sin_led]

@Nevyn_Auscent

Not at all,
You are trying to use appeal to popularity as an argument here, when there is no evidence to suggest any which way what the majority think.
I could just as easily say clearly the majority are against name changes, as they don’t want to have to spend time & effort in EVE to keep track of who is who, since they aren’t as strongly invested.
And it’s got just as much logic behind it as your claim.

The reality is that we have no idea what the majority think of this argument, therefore any appeal to popularity or claim of majority support is fake.
Which means that debating based on that is a false debate, and needs calling out as such.

Well this argument has been replied countless time here.
I’ll do it again :
There are already features in this game making people who really want to investigate on others “spend” time & effort to keep track : multiple account, alts, character buying and selling.

That’s why this argument is irrelevant : the thing you are describing is already here.
Having or not having Name Change Certificate won’t make it harder.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Esnaelc_Sin_led

I strongly believe that most of the people not replying are, for a great majority (yes, again), agree with this feature idea.
My strong belief is based on social studies stating what i said earlier : “people tend to express opinions and feelings more when those are negative, and even more so on social medias on the internet when their identity can be easily hidden”.

Interesting.

So what you’re saying is that people who voice negative opinions are in the minority while people who don’t talk at all are in the majority?

How does that explain that this thread is a negative opinion about the current state of EVE namechanges?

Your logic dictates that the majority of EVE players is content with the current state of EVE namechanges and are not voicing their opinion, and that only a tiny minority is asking for changes here.

I think it’s unfair for your cause to say that the only people in favour of name changes are present in this thread, but you’re free to make assumptions like that.

[Esnaelc_Sin_led]

@Nevyn_Auscent

1. IRL is not a game.
2. No they don’t, you simply saying ‘They get demolished’ is not true.
3. Chinese server was very different.
4. Nice way to dismiss peoples arguments and show that you have no intention of arguing in any kind of good faith when you attack the speaker, not their words.

So… Yeah.
It’s funny how most of those against this have posted actual concerns and issues, while most of those for the name change just post ‘because I want it and you guys are mean bittervets who hate change’ or stuff like that.

IRL is easy to manipulate as an argument pro or con the NCC.
I’ve seen IRL raised 2 times here to say “NO”.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Esnaelc_Sin_led

Well this argument has been replied countless time here.
I’ll do it again :
There are already features in this game making people who really want to investigate on others “spend” time & effort to keep track : multiple account, alts, character buying and selling.

That’s why this argument is irrelevant : the thing you are describing is already here.
Having or not having Name Change Certificate won’t make it harder.

Sometimes I like being able to investigate who’s in local with me. See if they’re sold on the character bazaar, who bought them, if that character bought any other characters and in which corp those other character are.

Sometimes I just want to see at a glance who’s in system with me. Name changes will remove that option.

[Esnaelc_Sin_led]

@Gerard_Amatin

Interesting.

So what you’re saying is that people who voice negative opinions are in the minority while people who don’t talk at all are in the majority?

How does that explain that this thread is a negative opinion about the current state of EVE namechanges?

Your logic dictates that the majority of EVE players is content with the current state of EVE namechanges and are not voicing their opinion, and that only a tiny minority is asking for changes here.

I think it’s unfair for your cause to say that the only people in favour of name changes are present in this thread, but you’re free to make assumptions like that.

There must have been a misunderstanding, from yours or from my side.

I’m saying :
Most Eve players never go to social medias about Eve Online (reddit, here, other forums, etc…).
Amoung this few that do comes in those social medias, the most will express opinions that are “against X”, or will want to “complain about X”.
You rarely go in a thread to say : “that’s good”, or “yes ! i want this”.

So yes, i think that people expressing negative feelings or opinions about a said subjects, will be fewer than the one wether not caring at all or having a good opinion, in most cases.

In other words, my logic says, that most of Eve players wether don’t care at all (and thus are not negative), or are positive about this feature.

My error resides in the fact that “not negative” not necessarily means “positive”.
It’s still not negative, they won’t complain or express any refusal about it, they just don’t give a frack.

[Esnaelc_Sin_led]

@Gerard_Amatin

Sometimes I like being able to investigate who’s in local with me. See if they’re sold on the character bazaar, who bought them, if that character bought any other characters and in which corp those other character are.

Sometimes I just want to see at a glance who’s in system with me. Name changes will remove that option.

In my case, it’s always, not sometimes.
And i’ve already been surprised by people using an alt for instance.

Just like name changes, it works once.