Immediately introduce new character creation which places newbies in nullsec

community
null-sec

(Caleb Seremshur) #1

A short history lesson: EVE historically only retains 4% - 6% of its playerbase. The NPE has been redesigned many times and never materially improved retention. This problem has been so long running that CCP scrubbed the names of several MILLION trial accounts that never converted and have been pressured to name scrub accounts that have been inactive for at least xyz period of years.

The game has a problem where it gets players brought in that want to participate in the big fights that CCP uses to advertise the game to the public, it brings in newbies and then funnels them in to a proven dysfunctional NPE that coerces players in to mining in the misguided belief this is what people want to do.

So I have a dramatic proposal: newbies get the option of either starting in hisec as per today, or starting in pirate space with automatic -10 sec status. This will require several fundamental changes to NPC pirate space but they should not provide much impact once they are implemented.

  1. Pirate NPC space sells BPOs for racial t1 ships. Guristas should sell caldari and gallente, Sansha should sell Caldari and Amarr, etc.

  2. Pirate space newbies should start with positive ratings with their host, receive a NPE instructing them in exactly what they have around them. They should catagorically NOT be offered ANY form of mining mission AT ALL. If they want to find minerals then they should be encouraged to find navy mining fleets per the new AI and gank them for minerals, be instructed to reprocess modules for minerals.

  3. With pirate space offering some nebulous form of NPC police for said newbies the pirate AI should use their fleets to kill players who enter with particularly low standings actively. Scan them down, land on them and gank them, like real players do. NPC pirate space will invariably be some kind of farming ground for weak pvp veterans but with these NPC AI’s being extremely aggressive it will curtail the phenomenon slightly.

  4. Pirate stations should offer LP stores that sell faction gun BPCs just like navy faction LP stores.

  5. At all times should mining be ignored or shunned by Pirate space newbies. There are over 20 trillion worth of minerals entering the market every month thanks to rorqual fleets, there should be catagorically no attention paid to mining by newbies any more. They will never make a material impact, they learn nothing about the game, they develop an unwarrented sense of entitlement as we have seen over and over. When this entitlement isn’t acted on they get ANGRY and threaten to quit the game. It’s not healthy to institute any entitlement in the playerbase. Decoupling mining from the NPE especially for players who joined for the PVP should be a focus.

r8 & h8


(Lady Ayeipsia) #2

Why? Encouraging people to use over priced pieces of junk seems like s bad idea.

Also why the -10 sec status? That seems like a cruel burden to place on new players. And it’s not like you need it for any reason. -10 does not grant some special bonus out in nul.


(Caleb Seremshur) #3

Because they are pirates.

That’s the community they came from. They can always repair those standings later with ratting if they end up getting recruited somewhere anyway,

Also faction weapons have a time&place and if you are good at pvp as invariably some people get you can push the limits on fittings and tactics. When faction guns get the chance to use t2 ammo it will make the pressure on these items even higher and thus newbies farming for faction guns can get a solid form of income.


(Chan'aar) #4

This would be gamed by veteran players starting alts.


(Lady Ayeipsia) #5

Not Just this but by whole vet groups of pirate faction guns were involved.


(Sindara T'Soni) #6

‘I hate mining. I like being a pirate. Play how I like, not how you like.’

3/10


(Memphis Baas) #7
  1. Features and Ideas sub-forum.

  2. NPC pirates are pirates. They will attack you even if you have high standings with them. There are several stations in NPC null where pirates have agents and you can do missions and buy the pirate ships from the agent LP stores. That’s how Machariels, Dramiels, Cruors, etc. get on the market. But anyway, even the people who have high standings with the pirates from doing missions, they still get attacked by NPC pirate ships.

  3. Sending newbies to null at the tutorial depends, fully, on the willingness of null player corporations and alliances to accept and train said newbies. They’ve already expressed this willingness in the form of the newbie recruiting corps, Karma Fleet, Pandemic Horde, Brave Newbies, etc. They’re already out there and accepting any newbies that are willing to apply. And we’re here suggesting to newbies that they go join for an easy way to learn the game. So, why reinvent the wheel?

  4. High-sec is newbie space. Null-sec is NOT newbie space, it’s the FFA combat zone. No other MMO is letting newbies start in the end-game dragon raid or ranked battleground PVP zones.


(Mike Azariah) #8

I remember when dad taught me to swim, he just threw me into the deep part of the lake. Wasn’t too hard after I got the chains and weights off.

no

m


(Caleb Seremshur) #9

You didn’t read the OP.


(Salt Foambreaker) #10

To me this is pretty normal. When you look at the greater gaming community most are bears and even among “PvPers” many coming from other games are instanced players who freak out when they figure out death is not free.


(Caleb Seremshur) #11

Blockquote

Features and Ideas sub-forum.

NPC pirates are pirates. They will attack you even if you have high standings with them. There are several stations in NPC null where pirates have agents and you can do missions and buy the pirate ships from the agent LP stores. That’s how Machariels, Dramiels, Cruors, etc. get on the market. But anyway, even the people who have high standings with the pirates from doing missions, they still get attacked by NPC pirate ships.

Sending newbies to null at the tutorial depends, fully, on the willingness of null player corporations and alliances to accept and train said newbies. They’ve already expressed this willingness in the form of the newbie recruiting corps, Karma Fleet, Pandemic Horde, Brave Newbies, etc. They’re already out there and accepting any newbies that are willing to apply. And we’re here suggesting to newbies that they go join for an easy way to learn the game. So, why reinvent the wheel?

High-sec is newbie space. Null-sec is NOT newbie space, it’s the FFA combat zone. No other MMO is letting newbies start in the end-game dragon raid or ranked battleground PVP zones.

I’d like to address a few points:

NPC pirate miner fleets aggression is scaled vs standings.
Newbies starting in null =/ being sent to null.
Depending on who you ask newbies cant advance in hisec thanks to monolithic entities and their entrenched operations plus wardeccers are constantly a source of complaint where they blanket wardec dozens or hundreds of corps at once hoping to fish for easy kills. This is to say nothing of the players in hisec that manufacture at a loss thanks to the “my minerals are free” mentality and the toxic advice given to newbies in the rookie help channel.

Your comment about the NPC missions is especially good, I have a 9.90 standing with guristas. I have only one statement to make about this - pirate faction equipment is already cheaper and more readily available in JITA than navy equipment especially when talking about most calnavy LP store stuff. You can buy DG torp launchers for like 6 mil each, this is from the incessant farming of DED sites that people have been doing for over a decade. You can’t even manufacture the cal navy torp launchers for as cheap as you can buy them from Jita.

If you aren’t prepared to change anything in a meaningful way then don’t be surprised when the slide you’re on never improves.


(Caleb Seremshur) #12

for those who aren’t aware your standard DG 125mm railgun is just a ball-hair over 2mil per gun.

The fed navy 125 is 23mil.


(Anne Dieu-le-veut) #13

How many people use faction guns? Maybe if they let faction guns use T2 ammo (since they are technically more advanced)…


(Caleb Seremshur) #14

That’s partially a function of rarity and perception. DG 150mm rails are 10mil each, which I guess means they’re used slightly more often.


(Ima Wreckyou) #15

This is probably one of the best ideas ever written down on this forums. What EVE needs is to make the game more interesting to new players and this certanly will.


(Ramona McCandless) #16

If they are so daft they cant get out there without being shown the way why would they last any longer when they got there?


(JUSTIFIED ARROGANCE) #17

This argument is wrong in so many ways it would take days to cover them all but let’s just hit the highlights because that is enough to toss this idea into the trash bin where it can then be quickly passed into oblivion.

  1. Statement (paraphrased): New players are enticed into game with promise of big fights and current newbie introduction system doesnt provide a ‘push’ to get newbros into big fights.

Retort: Moving people to pirate space doesnt get them into big fights either, it just gets them ganked before their first day of game play is over.

  1. Give people a sec status of -10: reasons (no real reason given)

retort: just dumb, nothing else to say here.

  1. Statement: Current system funnels new players into mining.

retort: THIS IS A BLATANT AND UNMITIGATED LIE. I will not let this kind of absolute lie just go by unanswered. While mining is an option under the current system, so is combat. Combat i will emphasis that doesnt burden new players with a -10 security status.

In short, your own stated problems with the current system will not only, NOT be addressed by your solution but will most likely end in an even worse player retention rate.


(Caleb Seremshur) #18

And what part of highsec makes pvp a central focus of the game? When new players say they’re ‘not ready’ for pvp because they have no idea how to do it? As if pvp corporations forming in npc space wouldn’t take in brand newbies and shelter them from the storm? As if weak players won’t reroll in highsec? As if being automatic -10 doesn’t drive home the idea that killing people is OK?

As if it isn’t thematic for some people and more immersive to just START as a space pirate like they dream of?


(JUSTIFIED ARROGANCE) #19
  1. I make no claim about highsec so i dont need to defend any such claim.

  2. If people dont know how to pvp letting get ganked 20 times a day isnt going to help them.

  3. You assume a LOT, that magically a significant number of pvp+npc pirate corporations are going to form and then on top of that dubious assumption that they will be wanting new players and on top of that dubious assumption that they will be willing to train them in pvp.

  4. Your assessment that players that aren’t good at pvp are ‘weak’ is just slanderous. Your assumption that because your idea didnt appeal to them that they would automatically choose to go to highsec is dubious since i feel under those circumstances they might tend to actually search for a pvp corp and join that instead.

  5. NO, giving people a -10 security status teaches them absolutely nothing at all. I belong to a nullsec alliance and have a 5.0 security status but have killed plenty of others so there is no relationship between you having a negative security status and being good at pvp.

  6. You can be a space pirate the moment you enter the game, stop the tutorial and leave the rookie system and go attack someone in low, wh, or nullsec or pull off a highsec gank all suitable ways to become a pirate in minutes.

Reiterating that your idea is embarrassingly bad, so let it go and save what little face on this issue you still have left.


(Caleb Seremshur) #20

Why don’t you post on your main? I’m really curious to know what krabbing alliance you belong to.

  1. I never said that ALL newbs go to null. I said to provide the option. You and everyone else who has assumed I was gonna force the issue just need to get a reading tutor because you clearly have problems comprehending written words.

  2. Getting killed 20 times a day in pvp might suit some people. When you start a competitive pvp game do you expect to farm all day?

  3. I’m hoping new players will band together like they did before. TEST, goons and BRAVE have their roots in completely newbitude, it’s a shame you can’t see that. But the thing is all these people had communities from the 3rd party to join by default (except BRAVE but they got shilled hard by everyone until the blocs formed phorde and karma to capitalise on newb recruitment).

  4. WEAK players will run to highsec or quit the game. Most likely quit the game, as 96% of trial accounts do.

  5. Giving them -10 has no real reasoning behind it however it will make the idea of pvping in areas where they can take a sec status seem less important. It’s a psychological thing, the same reason people join pvp servers in MMORPGs, they WANT exposure. The best way to create exposure is to PROVIDE it.

  6. You can but that requires some foreknowledge of how to do it and this completely ignores how some NPC zones are blocked off by sov and bubble camps. Starting in null is the best compromise. They also won’t eat gate guns which is another barrier to engagement removed automatically.

You shouldn’t be calling anyone’s ideas bad when you can’t even identify the main points.