Immediately introduce new character creation which places newbies in nullsec

  1. I dont post on my main because it has no relevance on issues i discuss, it is in fact a fallacy to base the validity of someones assertions on whom they are rather than the arguments they present. Im merely making it harder for people to make this fallacy by using a posting alt.

  2. I dont have any problems comprehending words but it is obvious that you do. Please copy and paste where i said or implied that you are forcing all players to go to nullsec or that your idea made any claim or implication that anyone would be forced to use it. It is; in fact, clearly stated that it would be an option.

  3. I dont expect a newbro to be a competent pvp’r out of the gate but your idea just sets them up to BE FARMED and that is my issue.

  4. I never said people dont form organizations. I said your massive number of assumptions based upon your idea was dubious which it most certainly is, those organizations you mentioned: Test, brave and goons are all nullsec entities and it shows to me at least that if you want people to form large organizations and get into the 'big fight’s you need to get them into nullsec alliances not into a -10 security hole in npc pirate space.

  5. Again, your slanderous assumptions that people that turn out to not like your idea is just that slander and the assumption they will go to highsec is a presumption you cannot predict with the accuracy you are implying. When i said i thought they would end up in some pvp corp might be me being overly hopeful but at least i dont go so far is making a claim that with certainty they will do what i expect them to, that is just information you dont have because you dont know them.

  6. As i stated there is ZERO relationship between security status and pvp competence so your argument on this basis is without merit.

  7. I read your post in its entirety before i called it the garbage it is and i do know and understand the salient arguments that all fall short of accomplishing anything.


Kind of moot. If a new player wants to head into null on day 1 he/she can. If they want to join one of the big organizations in null, well that is possible as well. So the proposal lacks a reason to exist.



So why are you objecting to cutting out the travel time? If you think it’s moot then starting the should just be an option in your own words since they can go there day 1 anyway?

I’m more interested in people starting their own unique projects in null and NOT feeding more meat in to phorde so that PL has more cotton pickers.

You don’t post on your main because you fear being associated with your words.

You do have comprehension issues. You directly neglected to mention that I said it was an option at character creation and spoke as though I was directly forcing all new players to null. Want the quote? Ok.

Statement (paraphrased): New players are enticed into game with promise of big fights and current newbie introduction system doesnt provide a ‘push’ to get newbros into big fights.

Retort: Moving people to pirate space doesnt get them into big fights either, it just gets them ganked before their first day of game play is over.

You strawmanned the statement and then attacked it under the pretense that being ganked is the worst thing that can happen even though CCP knows that retention for people being ganked has a track record of improving engagement with the game. They’re more likely to get in to “a fight” in null at a level they can compete than in highsec where you have these highly trained alpha predators ganking people for easy loot knowing that highsec does precisely F-all in training people how to fly.

Noone expects newbies to be good in pvp. Perhaps recruiters will stop newbies being farmed because this is an area they have vested interests in? It’s extremely hard to know how it will work out and you make this assertion based on habits you observe… where?

Those organisations I mentioned stem from out-of-game communities, except BRAVE, not repeating myself.

Point number 5 oh my god how delusional are you? Do you know why many games have opt-in PVP?

Noone cares about sec status as an e-peen measurement its a thematical tool to stop people thinking they’ll be safe in highsec. I remember reading a post by some guy who activated an ECM burst in high on a gate and got like automatic -6 sec status for his trouble and people were patting him on the back for it. Your approach is the total opposite. Having a high sec status or low sec status doesn’t indicate skill at all.

You can’t come up with anything salient other than finger wagging. Give me your very best shot. I really want to see you tell my people who start in highsec is the best place for them even though its the current starting area and a graveyard for (no exaggeration) over 10 million accounts.

Give me your best shot for justifying your point of view.

There is no statement nor implication in the quote where i claim or seem to claim that your idea is mandatory. Thanks for playing but you lose.

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My name and image are unchanged you can find me on the forums using a forum search i’m hiding nothing and again attacking someone instead of their statement is a fallacy. You lose again.

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There is no statement nor implication in the quote where i claim or seem to claim that your idea is mandatory. Thanks for playing but you lose.

That’s where the strawman lies. They’re more likely to get in to a fight in null than in highsec. Noone is being “moved” to nullsec, they’re getting the option of creating a character there. When you say “move” its implied that it is forced.

Learn to read. Don’t paraphrase either, you’re not good at it.

You stated that moving people (VOLUNTARILY, JUST PUTTING THIS HERE SO I CAN STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT ME NOT NOTICING IT IS VOLUNTARY) to pirate space day one isnt going to teach them pvp it is going to bring them to tears as better players farm them.

A better idea then dropping people into pirate space and hope they ‘figure it out’ it is making it more apparent that pvp corps and alliances exist and that joining them is an option that new players should strongly consider if they wish to learn pvp. Placing new players in an environment with no protection will see them being farmed.

Since you are so fond of quoting game developers than perhaps you are aware that farming new players, even under the protections of highsec was such a problem that CCP made it a game exploit to attack or otherwise take advantage of new players in new player starting areas, your dumping of them into pirate space is then a predictable outcome of a bad idea and not a straw-man attack.

You lose again.

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  1. I didnt say that anyone expects them to be good at pvp i said they will most likely suck at it in fact.

  2. I belong to a large alliance that regularly inducts new players into our organization so yes if a corporation has a vested interest in an area they might induct new players. But this is an assumption built on an assumption built on an assumption. Those being: 1) Organizations will form around your idea. 2) That those organizations will find pirate space that interesting because in my experience in pirate space it is almost entirely solo players doing solo player stuff. 3) that if organizations form around your idea that they will induct new players and I’ll add that again i believe the more likely formation of organizations will be to farm new players not induct them.

You lose again.

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Please quote where i said that opt-in pvp is some kind of issue. In EVE you Opt-in to pvp when you undock so i have no idea wtf you are talking about.

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In general you dont play eve very long before you get ganked no matter where you choose to play even in highsec space as soon as this happens any illusion that you are safe will go away in a hurry. Again your security status has absolutely nothing to do with pvp and your continued insistence that it is relevant not withstanding.

you lose again.

I knew you were going to bring this up. What stops me from shooting them on gate after they leave Todaki? Nothing. The limitation you mention ONLY exists in like 11 or 12 systems in the entire game (7600 systems or so). If a player progresses very fast or gets lost or decides to be adventurous they leave Todaki and I kill them straight away with a thrasher worth 1.8 mil and they have no recourse.

Or I could do what many people do and not waste my precious time farming newbs. For those people who that policy actually affected are the same people corp safety switch was invented for: because they’re incredibly weak people who insidiously needed to prey on the good intentions of others in highsec where interference was prevented in order to progress with the gank. Absolutely no such protection exists for these campers in nullsec and it would be comical (or farcical) to raid a newbie zone just to kill the Elite PvPers who are there to statpad noobships worth 1 isk each. The kind of mental midgets who need to vent on the quite literally defenseless.

I haven’t lost anything and you just look desperate for repeating this.

Semantics. That’s exactly what you said and you’re trying to paraphrase your way out of it again.

Absolutely nothing you say here is unique to null or exclusionary to it. Where did the first corps come from? It’s an MMO FFS they’re supposed to reach out to each other to find people with similar goals.

You’re pathetic.

Please quote where i said that having people start playing in highsec is a good idea. I never claimed it was good nor do i claim that it is a bad idea.

You must have a lot of straw laying around to be making all these straw-man attacks.


You lose again.

I want them to start in null. Debate me.

Very well. In hisec one can survive, for a while, can be in protected systems from predation while learning basics like how to load a weapon. How to lock a target. What the Overview is. It is Eve on training wheels and a lot of players need that. Could you show me how this would be implemented in null?

Now yes, I saw that you suggested it ‘as an option’ but I do not see the reason to spend dev time making this option. I do not see that it would increase the retention rate. Moot, as I said earlier, save that perhaps they should add directions on how to get to null, how to join corps, as part of the career agents.


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Your turn.

–Debating Gadget

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Sure. They start in an NPC system with the new aggressive dynamic AI’s looking out for them. It doesn’t have to make sense within the world we know today, it can make sense within a world we know tomorrow.

You were on the CSM, the ‘high sec candidate’ iirc. How many players got stuck in highsec and never left?

I would love it if CCP published some more stats for us to use to argue with. Any I was told I have forgotten with nothing to show but a new scar on my frontal lobes.

but I digress.

I was on the CSM, yes. and I still call Hisec my home and I still work a lot with the new players. Point is that we, as in you and I, have no idea who burns out and why. That being said I appreciate that you are trying to help in making alternatives to what is currently in place as you see it as ‘not working’.

Me> I’d like to see CCP try other venues for players. Eve players ARE a specific niche in the market so if the solution is not to change the game so much that the old payers would not recognize it then maybe it is to find a new source to fill our niche, new blood as it stands.



I really don’t get the “OMG SOMEONE WILL SHOOT THEM!!!” arguments here. They obviously come from people who play EVE in way that they mitigate all risk and avoid conflict because they could lose their assets… and that is nit something a new player will care about.

They join a game about spaceships, and instead of beeing told to grind until they are rich and can affort to PvP they get PvP from day one with their noob ships. I don’t know if you noticed, but they respawn.

So instead of boredom they get action. This sounds a lot more like a game that might actually interest people.

Also don’t forget that there are people like Mike which would probably make sure there are no idiots around to “farm” them because in null you can actually shoot those idiots.


I had a guy in my help channel telling me how highsec should be deleted. if that happened trade and everything else would pretty much die and be no where near what it is now.

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