Here’s the thing OP: if you take your risk aversion to the logical conclusion, you should never undock. You will be at no risk and progress at a set rate, at the trade-off you cannot earn anything from in-space activities since you never leave station. Clearly, that is sub-optimal as the richest players in the game do something in space, or interact with those that do and don’t just farm SP in the safety of a station. Finding the balance is the core gameplay of Eve.
This is the game - navigating the trade-offs that CCP has engineered. The risk vs. reward. The effort vs. reward. Yes, never undocking and training at max rate will earn you X amount of ISK, but at what opportunity cost? Sure, I actually agree with you that setting up a trade-off of progression rate against undocking probably isn’t the best idea for stimulating activity in this game, and I am all for CCP revamping/deleting attributes and training boosts, but the fact you have to make a choice between two options each with different pluses and minuses is what Eve is all about.
Undocking in +5s is pretty dumb now, given that Upwell structures allow infinite clone swaps. CCP has already nerfed most of the downside out of the trade-off. Sure, a few hours of training in a +3 clone or less comes with a small opportunity cost measured in ISK, but really the reward in fun or ISK should dwarf that. If you choose to not undock because there is a small opportunity cost and forgo having some fun in space or the ISK undocking can earn you, that is fine and your prerogative, but complaining you have to choose one thing or the other and can’t just have it all, is childish.
So +1 for rejigging this tradeoff, but -1 to deleting such interesting choices from Eve. In fact, this game needs more meaningful choices and forced trade-offs, not more homogenization and ‘Everyone is a Winner!’ mechanics if it is going to last.
If all you’re going to do is stay docked and farm SP then why are you still “playing” EVE at all? Accumulating SP is a means to an end, not the goal of the game. Either stop obsessing about theoretical perfect SP per day and do something fun with your time or quit.
This isnt about good tradeoffs, choices etc…
I no obviously I don’t stay docked all the time.
CCP just in general should not reward ppl for staying docked as much as possible. That is not something that should be rewarded! And it clearly is right now.
I agree with risk/reward and that what makes eve fun. But where is the risk in staying docked? Why is it rewarded?
The risk is that SP farming might become unprofitable for a while, and if you happen to be doing training during that time then you’ll lose isk. It’s the same risk as with market trading, PI farming, indy and reactions. Passive forms of isk generating all carry the risk that the market might suddenly turn on them.
I’m gonna stop reading here, because I have been in my +5s pod with all 10 slots being +5s for 5-6 years. Even when I lived in nullsec for 2-3 years. I never had the ISK to replace my implants either. Nor do I have alts to do scouting for me because that is cheaty. I asked people to scout for me, you know, team work. I scouted myself using warp to mechanics, I made sure to move around safely. In highsec, I am always in my +5s pod, because it is safe. Gankers don’t want to take the -2 sec status hit for killing a pod, they would rather be able to go pop another mining ship quickly and not have to go grind their sec status back up.
It is true, you shouldn’t fly something you are afraid of losing, but if you are smart, watch your local chat for very bad people, you will be safe. Of course nullsec is now even more dangerous making scouting a bit harder, but at the same time it is also more safe, because the enemy can no longer see you in the system. Unless of course you pop into a system and start singing in local chat to inform everyone you’re there just for giggles and watch everyone panic and flee back to their stations. But I mean thats just fun.
You can switch clones instantly in your upwell structures, so there is no cooldown or reason to make changes here. You dock, pop into your clone, log off for the night. Log back in, pop into your slaves clone, go about your day doing your stuff. I really see no advantage to docking and not having to change into your other clone to learn faster.
He doesn’t want SP while playing. He wants you to gain the use of your +5s while in a home upwell structure that also has your +5 pod in it. Which makes no sense, because you can switch instantly to your pod anyway while you are there and switch back instantly when you are read to leave. There’s no reason for this to be done as it is already possible. You just have to switch to your +5s clone while docked at your upwell structure.
Honestly, if you want the faster learning, you have to choose between your special implants or your learning implants. Its as simple as that. Learn faster, or have ship bonuses. Risk high ISK value pods, or hide your implants away safely. Its all a choice. What he wants does virtually nothing to the game.
Removing learning implants would be impossible, and piss off a lot of people such as myself who paid for these implants and worked hard to keep them for so long all because someone else is too scared to undock with them or rather can’t handle a slight loss in training time while he plays.
Are you here to stir up trouble every time I speak somewhere? I read the primary post of this thread.
“Allow people docked with their clones to benefit from their clones implants while in a station that already lets you bypass timer limits for swapping clones to benefit you with your implants from another clone without switching to your clone.”
Thats what it looked like he said to me. Unless he is saying “allow us to benefit from our max implants as long as we are docked at a station we set as home no matter where our clone is”. Which would be exploited by setting any station as your home. But I don’t think thats what he’s saying, I’m pretty sure its the first one.
Also not going to happen. I’m pretty sure this was a joke but if it wasn’t it would mean that he wants to remove everyone’s billion ISK implants because he is afraid to use them while undocked.
I did not even try to understand this part, because it involves a lot of conditional and is just not possible (what if several clones ? what if the station is destroyed when logged off ?).
So I just went with “remove them” and the argument for their removal.
I am not pro- or against- their removal, still there are some issues with them - one of them being
@Vas Vadum
Actually no it’s neither one of these. I ment “Use learning implants sitting in your home (upwell) station while beeing UNDOCKED”. While beeing docked, as you correctly said, would have no purpose. We can already use them while beeing docked.
@Anderson_Geten
Thank you. You seem to understand what I’m saying and thinking perfectly.
Current game mechanics leave you with 3 choices:
Don’t play eve and train at max speed with +5s
Play eve and train at max speed with 5s, but risk additional 500million isk no matter what ship you fly
Play eve and skill slower as you would beeing docked with your +5s. Active playing reduces your SP-gain
If you actually want to actively play eve and undock you have to either gain less skillpoints or risk a lot of additional isk. If you stay docked you risk nothing and gain maximal SP.
Therefore people are currently punished for undocking.
Of course playing eve makes no sense if you never undock, but the game should not reward ppl for not playing!
@Nepsy
My intent? I think my intent and reasons for even bringing this up are lingering between my calculation and my idea. The intent is:
CCP stops punishing People for undocking => More people undock => Eve space becomes more active and fun => More people start playing and continue playing eve => CCP earns more money with Eve => Eve survives longer => I can continue to play eve and use my assets in the future (:
@Anderson Geten
Yes and no.
What you are saying is what would happen with my idea.
I however wouldn’t mind if people, who are actually killing stuff and are ready to die themselves (lose ships) gained MORE SP than people staying docked or beeing logged off. Currently however it’s the other way around and that is imho very wrong and unacceptable.
Both SP-gains beeing equal is however at least acceptable. (:
So basically, since other people gain more SP than you it’s unacceptable?
It’s pretty obvious what you want, but there’s nothing stopping you from plugging in +5’s for pvp. Sure, you might lose them but that’s just a risk you gotta take