They removed two entire ores which drop Mex & Pye from highsec belts.
And no-one moon mines now because it isn’t even worth the fuel required to do so on 99% of them.
So yeah… No loss here. My statement stands and is backed with evidence still.
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It’s not pedantry. In the context, that’s exactly why CCP did add drones to the orcas : to give it a non-AFK gameplay which it did no have before. And the lack of non-AFK gameplay is exactly what they refer to in his quote about “make it contribute directly”.
So thanks to the drones, the orcas have an interesting gameplay (that is, not dumb AFK) even though they have less yield than the barges they boost. They also allow to avoid jetcanning (though limited in size) thanks to their shared bay.
To claim it was not the reason is just ignorance.
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Irrelevant. See my comment about moon ores.
This is objectively false. You’re being hyperbolic in order to strengthen your argument. However, the reason you need to do this is because your argument is so weak to begin with. There is tons of moon mining happening in HiSec. It’s not particularly hard to find.
Except not, but thanks for trying bud.
Pretty much every post you make is pedantry.
In context it was part of why CCP did it, it was also part of why the community wanted it. But it was not ‘Exactly why’. It was a contributing factor.
@Xuixien Ok, go and do the maths on an R4 highsec moon vs fuel costs.
Also produce meaningful evidence of this ‘tons of moon mining’.
And none of your statements disprove mine.
Is it less than 800mil? Cuz that’s how much I made mining half of someone’s field.
Whatever makes you feel better, buddy.
Thanks!
That’s a personal attack. This was not pedantry.
Yes CCP agreed with community that offgrid boosting was bad gameplay.
So yes, what CCP agreed with, is that the orca should not be an AFK ship.
If CCP did not care about he orca being an AFK only ship they would not have given it drones, requested or not. So yes this is the reason why they worked on changing it.
CCP did add drones to the orca IN ORDER TO allow it to have an active gameplay. They agreed with the community that this was a good enough reason.
All this agitation about one ship …
… to paraphrase those delightful PvP chaps, calm down gankers, it’s just mining.
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You do realize that appeal to motivation is a fallacy, and whether or not someone is a “ganker” holds no bearing on the validity of their arguments, right?
Not saying you are wrong.
Still a few people (and even some more in my System) are Moon mining.
I own four Stations. That’s around 250M/Month Fuel costs.
That’s not that much. I can pay for the monthly fuel after the first pull and being already into the profit.
That is with 4 Characters (in Orcas).
Edit: in HiSec
Oh, so less than 800m then.
Glad we cleared that up.
@Nevyn_Auescent: L M A O.
Just checked the Market.
It’s up to 80M per Station.
So 320M/Month for four Stations. (Just to be precise).
But yeah. Still less than 800M.
You do realise that whether or not someone is a “miner” holds no bearing on the validity of their arguments, right?¹
1 . Furthermore, and just for the record (as I’m sure you’re fully aware) The reason I wrote what I did was as a lighthearted reference to the way that gankers repeatedly, patronisingly and dismissively tell miners to calm down, like, all the blinking time, whatever we say and however we say it.
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Yeah dude, that’s how it works…
First, I would like to preface this post with the following information. I have not min/maxed Eve in probably a decade, so everything I have said so far has been based on anecdotal evidence. With the introduction of empirical evidence, I thought I should do my own research. Also, I do mulitbox, so I could see how anecdotal evidence could be skewed.
The arguments so far seem to be either, 1. I don’t AFK so it cant be done or 2. It can be AFKed so everyone does it. Of course everyone is an exaggeration. So I wanted to check how AFKable it can be.
The first thing I did was warped into two belts in my system, approached the largest looking Veld rock, and hit the survey scanner. The first belt was a A1 choice belt, lots of large rocks in a tight cluster. Something I don’t see every day. The second belt was something closer to what I am use to. A few big rocks, several smaller ones, all spread in a wide arc. Here is the general data from my scan.
Belt A, the prime belt, had a total volume of 569k m3 and 109 rocks, for an average of 5.2k m3 per rock. The largest was a 9.9k m3 rock and the furthest was only 22km away.
Belt B had a total of 385k m3 and 91 rocks, for an average of 4.2k m3 per rock. The largest was a 8k m3 rock and the furthest was 41km away.
Now to outline my evaluation. To handle travel time, I calculated the adjusted yield of a mining drone at 1km intervals. This was done by determining Yield / (time travelled + time mined). I used my Orcas stats for this. I also did not include the Orca moving to make the calculations easier.
For an AFK simulation, I sorted the asteroids largest to smallest, assigned 1 drone per rock, waited 30 minutes, re-assigned idle drones, came back in 30 more minutes and ended. The 30 minutes is arbitrary and can be adjusted if anyone wants.
For an active simulation, I sorted the asteroids by closest to furthest. Again I assigned 1 drone per rock, but as a drone became idle I reassigned it.
Now for the results, drum roll please…
For Belt A, The AFK miner only sent each drone our once in an hour. That is a total of 5 commands (not doing actions because there are lots of ways to do this task). That is 0.083 Commands per Minute. During that time, they mined 49k m3 of ore. So 0.102 commands per 1k m3.
The active miner sent out 15 commands in the same time, for 0.25 commands per minute. They mined 82k m3 for 0.183 commands per 1km3.
The AFK miner collected at 66% of the yield of the active miner.
For Belt 2, the AFK miner sent out 7 commands, or 0.117 commands per minute. During that time they mined 54k m3, or 0.130 commands per 1k m3.
The active miner sent out 20 commands, or 0.333 commands per minute. During that time they mined 75k m3, or 0.268 commands per 1k m3.
The AFK miner mined at a rate of 72% of the active miner.
So yes, I can see how you could AFK mine in an Orca. But I can also see that if you are running several orcas across belts similar to Belt 2 that it feels like you cannot AFK mine.
All of this still doesn’t change my mind that removing mining from the Orca is the best solution. But it is the easiest, and that is CCP’s MO.
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Quite literally you can’t have it both ways. I know this stings but that’s just how it is.
I don’t necessarily automatically discount people’s views purely based on how they play internet spaceships. It will feed into my views because it’d be nonsensical to ignore it completely but I do definitely recognise that not all gankers are idiots.
Equally the same can be said of miners.
However if you’re going to rubbish this truism with a throwaway and sarcastic comment like, “Yeah dude, that’s how it works…” then you should be neither surprised nor upset if people dismiss your views equally flippantly.
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That was a good read. I would be all for that. I have been wanting dynamic belts for a long time as I am on the wrong side of the world. I would also totally be game for better payouts for better ore. And I do see how this gameplay would make the Orca a more active logi as opposed to just a passive booster.
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CCP wrote fairly extensively on that. What CCP devs didn’t like is the alt nature of off-grid links and how it was almost compulsory to have a links alt in pvp.
Seagul spoke about it a few times, that they didn’t like that pvp had a significant disadvantage for anyone without a links alt and they wanted to remove that. They also didn’t like the investment involved in an Orca or Rorqual for a ship that just sat in a POS.
At the same time, the community was asking for mining role for the Orca, and that was a way to achieve several goals. The Orca became a ship a solo or main character could use effectively and it wasn’t relegated only to an alt in a multi boxing situation.
Removing that minig role would seem counter to that aim, as it would just become an alt ship again.
Which is what I meant by “that’s exactly why CCP added drones to the orca”. Fewer words, same idea.
And yes, having to have a perfect skill scanner in order to pinpoint the boosting tengu which required several passes, in order to give yourself the same chances … was just a reason to avoid many people who were basically isk tanking their ships.
Placing this thread in a 1hr Slow Mode. There are some good faith characters still trying to have a discussion and I won’t allow those engaging in back and forth to derail/stop you all from that.
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