Incoming Changes to the Orca

Industry Gameplay Center Mining & Extraction
1

To start, I am not sure what everyone’s problem is with the Orca. It’s yield is lower than a boosted barge, it’s significantly more expensive than an exhumer, and it requires more skills to be effective. The only things it has going for it is the larger tank and the larger hold. The tank only reduces the changes of being ganked and the hold provides longevity in the belt.

I don’t completely agree with the idea that it promotes AFK mining. AFK mining typically is done in HS, where you have belt, ice, and moon mining. For belt mining, even if you split up each drone to its own asteroid, you cannot AFK for more than a few minutes before an asteroid dies. For ice mining, and its been a long time since I have done that, it was all about speed not longevity. So you could AFK but come back to an empty ship and an empty belt. The only one that really works for AFK mining are long cycle moon mining, but the value of that has dropped a lot since the shortage started. It sounds like most people who use to moon mine have stopped.

I assume that since Rattati said that the intent is to take them back to their former state (don’t have the exact quote), they will most likely have their mining bonuses reduced or removed. This would probably drop it’s yield down around a venture. While I know its coming and I can’t change it, I do have two issues.

The first issue is that this makes the Orca useless beyond an AFK booster again. Rattati did mention that they would get an “Ace up its sleeve”, but did comment on the number of roles it already has. Assuming no new rules, it would need to be a boost either boosting, hauling, or fleet survivability.

The issue with the boosting/hauling combo is that you stop boosting as soon as you have to unload. With a decent size fleet, you end up hauling more than boosting. Any one of these features would be nice. For boosting, it would be great to get an increase in boost duration. 15-20 minutes per pulse would allow you to unload and return without dropping boost, even if that unload is in a different system. For hauling, compression in the field (like the Rorq) would dramatically increase hauling capability without increasing holds and would help with the boosting/hauling dual role. For survivability, a PANIC button to help defend against gank attempts would be nice.

The second issue is, I have been waiting for a drone based mining ship since they removed the 15 drone Domi. We finally got it and now it is being removed. While my wants don’t create a niche, it would still be nice to have options when it comes to mining. One option is a second line of barges/exhumers that are based on drones. Another is to move the drone bonuses from the Orca to the Porpoise. With the lower cost, tank, and hold size hopefully it would not earn the ire of the player base.

4 Likes
2

Where are you reading about these pending changes?

3

Rattati has hinted in at least two of his interviews.

The latest being the one posted on the forums, CCP Rattati on a stream talking about economy, at around 00:38:00 it is mentioned with the Rorqual.

1 Like
4

To get boosted barge you need barge in orca. With perfect skills you get same same yield and

Perfect solution for solo mining and starting point for own fleet of alts.

Considering amount of mining done in HS (https://images.ctfassets.net/7lhcm73ukv5p/4LnTGg7Otdm5ZugEhSRT97/31d68e3b9633a0b5d044edd15b6aba17/3_mining.value.by.region_bar.png) this is good enough reason to finally nerf it.

CCP said they have idea for it. Yet you completely ignore that and claim that changes will be only buffs or nerfs to current stats. Maybe wait for actual announcement. Since CCP obviously has something planed to finally make Orca and Rorqual “industrial command ship”.

MWD cycle is 10 seconds. Boost cycle is 60 seconds. If structure is close enough you should be able to deposit ore in time.
20 minutes cycle would only make them again off grid boosters. Give boost, warp to structure for perfect safety, come back when timer ends

Totally agree. More options is always better.

2 Likes
5

I am not saying that Orcas are not viable mining ships for both solo and multiboxing players, what I am saying is that I find it hard to believe that AFK mining in orcas is as big of an issue for the economy as they are being portrayed.

An active pilot will make more than an AFK one, and an active fleet of boosted barges/exhumers will make more than a fleet of Orcas. If we switch the discussion to the impact of multibox mining vs single account mining, then yes an active multiboxer can be more effective with a fleet of Orcas that all mine a little less than with a fleet of barges. I have heard more complaints about the AFK aspect of the Orca than of the size of multiboxer fleets. I personally have never seen anything where CCP wants to limit the multiboxing capability of players.

As for the changes, those are obviously just some ideas I had for changes that I would like to see. I understand that there is no way to predict what they will do and I will evaluate my future plans when they actually announce then changes. A little theory crafting can be fun from time to time.

4 Likes
6

It’s not about AFK mining but ability to mine itself. from support ship they changed to all in one OP solution.

Anyway I find it interesting that you mention only Orca but not Rorqual. I get feeling that you are quite biased rather simply concerned about changes itself.

7

Considering the amount of ratting within Null maybe they should nerf that, with the blue doughnut the risk is minimal, all everyone wants is high sec nerfed into the gutter (kinda is already), my question is WHY, WHY DO PEOPLE WANT HIGH SEC DWELLERS IN LOW AND NULL?

For the love of god man, people here in eve hate high sec players with a passion yet they want them in their fail corporations, for what?

What use is a high sec player who wants to solo, doesn’t want to gate camp, doesn’t want to roam, has no interest in YOUR corporation growth, why do you want people like that to interact with?

12 Likes
8

I wouldn’t say biased, I haven’t had the pleasure of a Rorqual yet. As the last paragraph of my OP explains, I enjoy the Orca as a drone mining ship. If they remove its drones and give me a totally different hull with drone bonuses I would totally switch.

9

Cool, any other unrelated complains? Can we go back to talking about broken ships?

oh, btw. for over 4 years of my eve career. 90% of time I spent in hisec. I really, really don’t have idea what are your thin air assumptions about me but I don’t come from are of space or group you expect.

@Lugues_Slive I agree that drone mining needs love if they want to remove ability to mine from orca. For other stuff, we just need to wait for announcements. We can ramble about it all day long but without any information I think it’s pointless. Most important arguments where already said. In my opinion.

2 Likes
10

The real reason why people complain about the orca, is the cost to gank it. All you see is entitled people whining because it costs more than 10 destroyers to kill it.

IF CCP changes the orca and people start using procurer instead, it will be exactly the same. All they complain about, is their inability to annoy people who enjoy the game.
So the only way to actually improve the game is to make other mining ships stronger, by allowing the barges and exhumers to actually have a decent fitting room. This way the whiners will choke on their own tears and stop making BS claims.

19 Likes
11

Well the idea is that reward should be balanced with risk. And since HS is ostensibly the safest space, it should have the lowest reward. Of course, this leads to several other questions, such as: (1) is HS actually more safe than NS? (2) Does it matter if it’s players or mechanics that is providing that safety? and (3) What is an appropriate risk to reward ratio? But those are probably best left for another thread.

All of that being said, there are players out there that look down on other player groups. WH and LS think NS is a bunch of F1 monkeys that rely on N+1. NS thinks HS is a bunch of care bears and noobs. HS thinks renters are a bunch of bots. And no one cares what renters think because they are human equivalent of a sink drain basket that needs to be cleaned. For real though, don’t let it bother you. It’s usually sub par players that look for others to disparage so that they can feel better about themselves.

4 Likes
12

When I read about afk miners, I laugh.

Highsec rocks are tiny. If you’re afk, regardless of what ship you fly, you’ll spend more time doing nothing than actually mining.
Nullsec rocks got nerfed to the ground. If you’re still using a rorqual, you’re stupid. Too high risk to cycle for small and medium rocks. Excavs eat through them too fast.
At best, the rorqual is just a poor man’s jump freighter. For rocks.

8 Likes
13

Halve barge EHP, give Orca AOE panic button.

1 Like
14

Why would they make barges as flimsy as a venture?
Giving an orca a panic button would prevent all ganks. You do understand how panic buttons work, right? Completely invulnerable for 4-5 minutes. Gankers would be concorded, miners would be free of danger.

4 Likes
15

IF they are paying attention, which again, helps active miners instead of AFK miners.

1 Like
16

I’m still not sure I understand how people afk mine. Rocks are tiny. Even if the drones are split one to each rock, it takes almost no time to chew through them.
If they’re just listening for the alert, they get the same alerts when they’re under attack.

8 Likes
17

I totally agree, but it sounds like the issue is not AFK mining as I was always lead to believe, but ease of multiboxing that people have a problem with. While at the same time they dont want to see the removal of 30 man multiboxing gank fleets.

3 Likes
18

Yeah. I’m a major miner multiboxer. I do make good isk, but it can be a bit hard to keep up as you scale.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been accused of botting. It’s an interesting psychological experiment.
If you do more or are better than someone else at any given activity, they think you must be cheating, or they want rules changed.
In this community, they either accuse you of botting, or claim the activity is so easy you must be afk, no matter the scale at which you operate. Facts don’t matter when considering the ego. If they feel inferior in any way, the authorities must crack down.

9 Likes
19

Another think that slightly worries me about this change, if worry is the right word.

If CCP reduces the drone yield on the Orca, it will only make it a better AFK/Multiboxing ship. If those players are already willing to take a yield cut by not using boosted barges and just make up for it with more Orcas, then if you reduce the yield more they will just add more. CCP opened Pandora’s Box with the mining change and now it cannot be closed.

If they go to the extreme and take drones away completely, then the Orca will have no way of defending itself and become even more useless. It will be relegated to the same role as that awkward kid your parents made you invite because he has no friends.

1 Like
20

Why though? Why, if the yield goes down, would you invest in more afk Orcas? I don’t get it.

I seriously doubt CCP would take drones away from the Orca. They may take away the mining drones or mining drone bonus perhaps, but I don’t see why they should take away the defensive weapons of the ship that’s supposed to defend a mining fleet.