Industrial Core = Sitting Duck

I think the Core should not exist and its benefits should be the same without it

Bots also crab in fw plexes. And bots run incursions. And abyss. And nullsec ratting anomalies. And distribution missions. And the minigame. And market trading. CCP should nerf or remove all those activities, because bots are doing those.

Other companies would try to tackle the bots instead.

8 Covetor alts, which is nothing to a professional nullsec miner these days, and you’d end up having the core cycling for a longer time then it’s not cycling.

If turning it off was even considerable to you, you don’t have enough alts, and should create more.

But I agree on the orca mining drones being insignificant. Barges and Exhumers are the orca’s drones

Red herring fallacy.

My argument isn’t about those other gameplay aspects. Just the misuse of mining mechanics.

Nice try, trying to misdirect my argument and throw up smoke and mirrors though. I give you a 1.2 out of 10.

Try to “logic harder” in the future.

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You completely missed their point. If you want to apply your logic to one part of the game, it needs to be applied to the whole game. We should not be punishing players for what the bots are doing. We should be punishing only the bots.

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Says who? That is also a logical fallacy.

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So you think bots should be handled differently based on what type of gameplay they do? If they mine, nerf the ship they use, but if they ratt or do anything else, don’t worry about it because it’s not the argument? Gameplay should not be nerfed to handle bots, you can change it to make it more active sure, but don’t punish players for trying to game the game. Orca’s can and should be able to do multiple things, to keep the player engaged and clicking more buttons, they should not just be sitting there and only giving boosts to everyone else. Drone mining is not as effective as mining in exhumers, but at least it’s better than not doing anything at all.

I get that it cuts into the isk/hr thing while idling semi-afk alt-tabbed out watching netflix.

But the orca can already do multiple things.

It can:

  1. provide boosts
  2. compress ore
  3. has a fleet hanger for easier fleet deployment
  4. has a significant cargo hold
  5. offers quite a large EHP buff that some people run level 4 missions, aaaaand use that to suspect bait other players.

Why does it also need to mine ore? It is a support ship for mining operations. That’s what the mining barges and exhumers are for.

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Might as well bite.

That’s conflating. And leads to a straw man fallacy.
I didn’t say any of those things. But you wish and/or want me to because, well, it leads right down that straw man road.

Nice try.

And only ONE of those things you listed requires some sort of engagement by the player. Adding in Mining Drones gives the player something to do in between ore compressions. In a mining op, that orca is doing the least amount of button presses, why take away most of those button presses? All you are doing will be encouraging that orca to go permanently afk, or close to it if you take away those drones.

Orca pilots are going to AFK, drones or no drones. That’s what the OP is whining about, that he can no longer solo AFK Netflix roid hog in his Orca in relative safety…

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You know, that is a really good point.

Enough of one for me to make an amendment.

Not only should orcas not be allowed to use mining drones, but the pilot of the orca has to target the ships they wish to apply their boosts to. Additionally, the cycle time on a boost should be reduced to 30 seconds. At the end of which, the module shuts off (no automatic renewal, as that defeats the purpose I’m about to make) and breaks the target lock. The orca pilot then has to reacquire the target locks and reactive the module. That way they have buttons to press every 30 seconds to keep them engaged!

I’m glad you brought that to my attention.

Oh, one more thing. My old corp mate used an orca alt as a base of operations to preform high sec shenanigans in. Namely to quickly change ships when baiting players, or ninja salvaging/looting their mission sites. So that’s another use. But that falls under “ship hanger.”

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An orca can target ventures within 30 seconds now?

And why would I even care about mining foreman bursts. If all I wanted is a foreman, I use a command destroyer, which of cause, I assume, you propose should lose the ability to fit a foreman or a command burst module to begin with, because that’s not how null blocks use it. Rename it the command destroyer class to “relocator” on that occation, and remove the ability of command ships and non-command BC and capitals to have foremans, too. For simplicity of cause, because otherwise people would ask why an armor command burst can affect 100 alts while in warp, when a mining command burst needs targetting, retargetting, and wears off faster.

The way to use an orca, in 2022, is to drop it into the middle of you moon belt, engage the crab mod and the compression mod, minimize the orca account client to safe resources, and alt tab back to it once all valuable ore was crabbed, or you want to call it a day. It doesn’t matter whether you put some drones on a rock or not, stopping the siege mod to relocate the orca on another rock for the slowish drones to be able to mine somewhat efficiently will lose more isk that can’t be made by the barges while the orca is relocating, then is lost by the orca not drone mining.

A relock requirement, btw, would be yet another promotion for botting, and useless alt deployment, as non-bots would circumvent the delocking or inability to lock on all ships in time by dropping a second orca on grid, which cycles the command burst once the other orca’s once has worn off.

which are 5% stronger then a Porpoises’ one that can be obtained for 1/20th of the price

It doesn’t do that. It only provides the crab for the barges to do that themselves

The fleet hangar is irrelevant for fleet redeployment. It used to be the intermediate ore dump for mining barges that anchored on the orca, before in-space compression was introduced.

Which has been deprecated by in-space compression. On the mining grid, you put nothing but (compressed) ore into the hold, and when using the Orca to haul ore to a market, a porpoise can load a full compressed 2-week pull, and be at the next market with it before the orca makes 4 jumps. At a 20th of the orca’s price.

As in suspect baiting with an orca in a lvl4 security mission? Orcas lack the lock speed and damage application to be efficient at missioning, agents also send missioners to other systems, while an orca is hardly good at travelling. They might have high EHP but they have no significant repair capability and can’t be fitted to tank significantly more then a single Condor. Inside the Mission grid, escaping a Condor’s tackle, with an Orca that can’t fit a Microjump drive, can’t fit Heavy Energy Neutralizers to reach out to the Condor, either, is quite a bit of a hypothesis.

Warp Core Stabs, I guess? To bait something to engage you in 1% of the missions, and perform even worse then an orca naturally does in 99% of the others where people don’t go for you even if you’re suspect, but still lose the orca if it’s engaged by some catered fit like tripple warp disruptor tackle frigates

The orca bait thing is for lowsec and npc nullsec, where you don’t need a suspect tag to have people jump on you, and threaten the player you want to bait by approaching a stargate and getting away if he doesn’t commit (more of his stuff) on you. Even then, often the Orca just dies because the prey took too little risks and used some kitchensink ships to bump/web the whale that are not worth exposing the ambush, while the good stuff is out of range to get tackled by the orca, and manouvered too well to get some cloaky bombers into range, too.

I don’t care

Yes, it does.

Do you even know how to fleet?

I thought you said the orca can’t compress…

Conflating. I said people use orcas to run level 4 missions.

And

It can be used to bait players, look up Market Tycoon he’s quite successful at it.

You should stick to snorting veldspar and let the bait experts speak for themselves.

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The core should be used all the time, thats what it is meant for. Higher yield, more range. Its like saying you should never use the mindlinks and command modules. They can be AFK’d as well. WIth this logic, lets remove everything that does not require direct player clicking.

By that same logic, the logic of the elitist sociopathic micro clicker, lets make drones not automatically attack targets, lets make them so you have to click on the target for each drone every time. Lets make it so you don’t automatically reload the guns, because it can be AFK’d, and god forbid, require less player input. While we are at it, lets eliminate the industry window, because it makes it so much easier to estimate production costs and you can do everything at once.

Until now people were complaining about orcas being ganked in high sec while mining, there was no escape. That is NOT true. You could easily escape a gank if you were not AFKing. You could use micro jump units, alt with webs, even warp out. The problem with the core is that it cycles so slow, that even if you see a gang coming there is nothing you can do to escape. You cant warp out, you cant, jump, you cant really defend at all. So I hate to break it to you but AFK or not, makes zero difference while using the core.

And all you elitist super clickers dont really get it - in null sec or low sec, gankers dont come because they will likely die on the way in, wont make it past the first gate camp. In high sec, they are in total safety until they hit the target.

An Orca in high sec is literally defenseless against gankers when using the core. Thats my whole point. It cannot defend and it cannot escape.

Well before CCP started nerfing all the resistance stuff. An Orca could fight off FoBs rats in high sec to escape. Well they can’t do that now.

The biggest issue I have with Orcas is that they take capital components to build but can not fit one capital rig or capital modules. This is the dumb thing I have ever seen in any game!

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Doubt.

I’m sure you have probably seen dumber crap in both/either EvE or some other game.

The issue is not with rats, the problem is with high sec gankers who are not restricted in any way, shape or form. You get no warning, until local spikes. By that time, even if you react immediately, its too late to deactivate the core and warp out or use a micro jump unit. The scales are so tipped in favor of gankers its just stupid. In null sec you get advanced warning from intel channels, plenty of time to safe up.

There has to be some balance where an alert pilot, has to have a way to either defend against a gank, something…

  • Pop an capital ADC to considerably increase EHP for 10 seconds with a 5 minute cooldown. So you have to time it just right otherwise its useless.
  • Emergency shut down the core so it wont complete its cycle - you have to redock to activate it again.

…I do not advocate for AFK mining, or AFK anything - if you do, you deserve to get banned / ganked.

Then you should make drone combat ships target each drone separately and remove drone ability to automatically engage targets. Every time the target dies, you have to manually retarget each drone - just so to prevent you from doing any sort of AFK’ing - do you realize how idiotic your suggestion is?

1 orca ganked in the last week , mining with an indy core fitted . in an ice anom , where the same gankers killed his exhumer alt 40 minutes prior … playing afk or very reckless , the core made no difference…

i rarely mine , but did train and fit an indy core and compressor to my orca to try them out . with core running , it had 2200 dps active tank (2800 fully heated) , 370,000 hp (470,000 fully heated) , and 600 drone dps …
ungankable ? of course not , but certainly not defenseless …

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False Equivalency

I’m not saying that all. Why are you putting words into my mouth?

However your suggestion -quoted above- is utterly idiotic. Why would you even fathom that and then try to make it look like it was my idea?

Oh wait, because you know it’s idiotic.

Edit: changed Red herring to False Equivalency.