Industrial Core = Sitting Duck

You are missing one critical point here. Gankers will nearly always get their targets. No ship is gank proof. If people want your ship dead it WILL die. Don’t care about defenses vs ganking because the only mechanical defence vs ganking is. Tanking Smart or having friends to protect you. CCP has MASSIVELY shifted core gameplay aspects to co-op stuff. Station Ownership/mining are the most recent.

Everything else is a mindset. Not useing too much bling/looking at local/being aware of local gankers are excellent defences vs ganking. Location location locaton is also a big factor. Get further from Jita you will live a lot more. You be surprised how many dead HS systems there are. Gankers usually stick to the trade routes and some scouting every now and then.

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You are misconcepted here. Null gankers originate from needlejack filaments and covert cynosural filaments, both of which bypass stargates. In many lows, there’s noone, simply because competing hotdrop-specialized corporations have already dropped on any asset that could be used to operate at profit, leaving nothing in the area other then the hotdroppers and their competiton hotdroppers, who either are docked or cloaked, as doing anything else would expose them to the risk of getting hotdropped. Classic ganking still exists, but has considerably gone down in the recent years, and CCP’s decision to strip all asteroid belts from ore, and therefore from miners, which were the natural target for unorganized gankers, has hardly contributed to countering this trend.

The orca isn’t just basically a capsuller controlled deployable when it’s getting ganked, it’s also basically a deployable when it’s not getting ganked.

If it was capable to do anything more then that, a user would be tempted to do anything more then that. And by doing so, the user would pay more attention to his orca, and less attention to his barge alts. The users need to be sent a strong message that all attention can be put on the barges, and putting any on the orca, is just wasting attention. If you were happy to multibox 3 accounts a year ago, you now are basically multiboxing 2, because the orca account ins’t really an account. So in order to continue tripple accounting, you can create a new account, Omega subscribe it, and have 3 barges. You even get +10 manufacture/science/reactions slots. And PI slots. Isn’t it great?

Why do you hate gunboats and droneboats so much? What about autotargetting missiles, ewar modules, command ships’ command bursts, and everyone’s favorite: the afk smartbombing battleship?

Its’ everyone’s favorite to the extend that people don’t see that the ship that has really perfected the afk is the interdictor. Every second of those dies within jump range of a stargate, and had not aggressed. The client had simply been alt-tabbed out once the bubble went up, and the operator didn’t realize in time that his dictor was being attacked.

The orca can’t have a sustained regeneration of even half those numbers. When the ancillary repair runs out of charges, it’ll be back into 20-ish hp/s passive repair, as it lacks the capacitor to operate shield booster modules, especially an uncharged ancillary one, for a prolonged time.

A tanked orca has around 500k ehp, which is achieved by installing a Damage Control II, T2 Bulkhead Low, T2 Bulkhead rigs and your favorite combination of shield hardeners/amplifiers. If the Hardeners are overheated, the orca can peak around 520k ehp with t2 mods.

It can also have more then 600 dps drone damage, but the Orca’s sensors are complete junk. A Cormorant has a sensor signature of 244m (Can’t tell you what the Catalyst has but it won’t be too different), which means a skill maxed orca takes 12 seconds to lock on it. At the time the Orca can order its drones to attack a Cormorant, the Corms already have you in hull. To lock a Battlecruiser, which have around 450m sensor signature, it still needs 9 seconds. BCs on the other hand lock an orca in 3, and those fitted for suiciding to it in 2.

In highsec, while waiting for CONCORD, 9 seconds, or even 12, this is a significant amount of time. Elsewhere, the gankers will likely not have the “numbers” (they might have the numbers of players, or even more, but less “capsuleers”) that the highsec gankers have, and they might also have less burst DPS, but as they don’t need to finish the job before CONCORD rolls in, they’re in less of a hurry and will wreck all drones.

They’re shifting to multi-accounting, not co-operation with other players.

If you’re some carebear miner in SOV null and happy with crabbing on arkonor and bistot (*) because your corps buys ore m^3 paying independend of ore type, as a “real” mining corp does, you won’t care about losing a ship once in a year to a ganker, and you won’t become a good customer to CCP, either.

It’s the miner who is not fine with crabbing arkonor and bistot, and wants all the crokite, mercoxit and omber for himself. It’s him who will try to cherry pick all the “good” ore before the other members even realize it has spawned. Of cause he will notify them about the new anomaly once there’s only low-profit ore left, so they can “help” him remove it all. In order to finish cherry picking all good ores before the others realize the new anomaly has spawned, he only needs … a few alts, and a command ship, and exhumers , and and and…
… many omega subscriptions, lots of profits for CCP.

He might even be greedy enough to skill inject his new toons, or buy pre-skilled accounts from other players, which he pays in PLEX, so CCP gets a nice bit of extra money for his jump-start.

The “Veteran” population also “needs” the greedy miner type. It is the greedy miner who wallet-warriors all PLEX the veterans buy onto the market, allowing them to subscribe their accounts. Its also the wallet warrior miner who buys all the skill injectors, creating income for the skill farm owners, who also are Veterans.

(*) arkonor and bistot are ores that is present in very large quantities in SOV nullsec and required to be mined in order to become able to mine anything else. Anything else will then spawn after some time, but in considerably lower quantity, making everything other then arkonor and bistot “valuable” ores in nullsec

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I can’t dispute this you are correct. :slight_smile: CCP kind of wants both ends of more friendship while also pushing more multiboxing.

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I remember when I started in 2016, back then Orca was in perfect safety inside POS not contributing to the mining at all, and it wasn’t problem back then.

Suddenly if Orca won’t mine at least what procurer would have it is useless and pointless ship… I think carebears just got more lazy and greedy.

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yes that’s an asb fit , the hp numbers from the fitting screen as i sat in it . 22 seconds it can tank like that , making hs gank take much more effort .

you got a bit ot about null sec multi boxer, where we share the same sentiment . won’t put one of their miners out as a scout , won’t help defend cuz their spec’d miners have no combat skills , and ship their ore to hi sec to sell , bypassing corp refine and contributing nothing at all to their alliance . it’s nothing new … :confused:

How hard is it to see what systems are mined the most and expect to see most miners?

Location location location, they can just be logged of in the system and warp back exactly where you are mining,
You have no time to do ANYTHING , you cannot warp off, you cannot call your friends , you cannot do nothing

This is the only part of that post that makes sense.

Gankers don’t use logoff traps. That would almost be counter to part of their play. They want to do everything right in people’s faces, because it highlights even more, how lazy and incompetent many players are.

If they had to resort to logoff traps, that would mean most people are playing pretty well. We are a long way from that.

However, I totally agree that we cannot do nothing. There’s lots we can do, just many choose not to.

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You have plenty of time to hit d-scan which would alert you to the fact that they are warping to you, and it would give you plenty of time to get away.

In EvE, it’s not the fits, or superior firepower/mods/ships that win. It’s knowledge.

So, here is what I do.

  1. I keep an eye on local
  2. I run zkillboard and analyze folks in local on it to get an idea of who may be gankers. Or good gank targets. I used to use EvE pirates little helper app until it was discontinued.
  3. I ping d-scan every 3 seconds, regardless of security status. Gathering intel will improve your chances of survivability significantly.

You’re not a helpless victim, and no amount of bitching, moaning and crying will ever convince me that you, or other carebears are. You have all the same tools at your disposal as I do. Early warning, and risk assement.

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A lot of anti gank methods are before a target is ganked. Ganks often happen fast. Most of my ships are passively tanked so there’s always some increased EHP. Bigger ships when appropate like the orca can afford to have a multispec always spinning.

@Ax_l_Thorne explained anti ganking on the field well. Combination of awareness (as you live in an area you know common faces) and alertness. There is plenty we can do to combat ganking both on the field before and during a gank.

To your point about location Roxana, it still matters alot. I would expect less ganks further you get from jita. I have never in my 4 years or so here in EVE seen a case where gankers have used log off traps XD

As someone who ganks, this is not true. What we look for are a number of factors.

  1. being the number of belts in the system. More belts = more miners and the likelihood that it will attract miners. So systems with a lot of belts will be more favorable for gankers

  2. Ice belts. This one can be hit and miss. But systems with ice have, in the past, been systems for ganking. I use these systems now for bumping

  3. high rate of level 4 missions. Systems and the surrounding systems where there are a lot of mission runners attract gankers (those that suspect bait for whale hunting) especially those systems that have level 4 sister of eve agents

Your best bet to find systems with lower incidences of ganking will be those that have fewer belts, and are more remote (away from high activity systems)

A number of high activity systems include
Gulfanodi
Teonsude
Nakugard
Lassingi
Uedema
Hamalia
Piak
Torrinos
Oipo

I don’t spend a lot of time in Gallente or Amar high sec space. But a quick check on EvE dotlan and filter for NPC kills can quickly show you systems that have high activity.

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I will add to that that the smaller ganker groups like I ran back in 2018/19 are almost exclusively ganking in 0.5/0.6 systems due to them lacking enough players/accounts to have good chance of success in higher security.

This is of course not 100% immunity, as the bigger groups can gank anywhere, but avoiding 0.5/0.6 should be the first and most reliable method how to prevent making yourself a gank target.

EDIT: well no, mining in Procurer should be the first choice and works on 99% as detterent to gankers

For example, the above list:
0.5
0.6
0.5
0.5
0.5
0.7
0.5
0.5
0.5
Oipo - 0.8 - just 1 gank in history by Safety (big ganking corp)

True, but look back at what I said, oipo is a system that has a lot of mission runners. The system itself is 0.8 but I said be aware of surrounding systems. Also, suspect baiters that go after whales, don’t care about security status because they get the whale to shoot at you first, then it’s all over.

YOU CANNOT WARP WITH AN ACTIVE CORE.

NO AMOUNT OF AWARENESS WILL CHANGE THAT IT’S A 3 MINUTE BASTION MODULE

It has a joke of a shield boost bonus and 0 defense bonus. Yes, a nice bonus for drones but aggressive done setting leave you vulnerable to suspect baiting and passive setting is useless because of lock on times.

Do get it now Ax’l… Running an industrial core on Orcas MAKES them sitting ducks.

Uh, no.

It does not make you a sitting duck. I think this is a classic case of, “git gud, scrub.”

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CCP has a sense of humour shown by some of the in-game items including some event commodity items based on players’ famous actions and whatnot.

In that vein, based on this very thread maybe they could add a new special edition commodity item and/or replace the industrial core activation button / module icon based on the below image…

Click to reveal image...

:wink:

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Their are mining systems that have been rarely touched by gankers. Their are even hs pockets that are available with no ganking at all. Just have to do your research

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Because is not worth mining in them
Lets all stop mining
lets all be gankers wtf,
You just invite yourself and create another account taking advantage (not abusing ?)of the invitation method to have 1m SP where you can absolutely gank in a crap trasher/talos/catalyst , maybe get a few friends and start ganking.
Delete the account because people start adding you on Red list after you kill a few targets
Rinse and repeat.

By way of explanation, the usual crowd here is not sympathetic to mining in the least. No amount of logic you extend will change hearts and minds here.

IIRC properly, there are Orca fits with +400 ehp and resists north of 75. It would take north of 50 Catalysts to take down an Orca in a 0.5 system. So if midday Saturday when all the time zones are active and you are mining in an Orca far from support in a crap fit, around a 0.5 system, you may go down if 60 Catalysts show up.

I have mined more than the average care bear for a couple years. Lately focusing on other aspects of the game but I have quite the inventory of bps and material, I can build solo practically non-stop. I even gank from time to time. The non-miners around here love to carry on about the retched boredom and tedious nature of mining. Oh man, the Gank to do list is much shorter and if you are not in good company it will suck your brains out. At least after mining I can build me say…an Ikitursa for one of my toons or a buddy.

Yes! This is what I am trying to say. There are so many areas of HS that are so quiet and rarely touched by gankers.

Uh? Define a system “WORTH” mining in? Proximity to jita lol? Don’t wanna haul 20-35 jumps? Ore is ore. Moon’s are pretty easy to access I don’t get you mean by that.

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