Inner Circle Peace Summit Focuses on Reform of Militia War Laws and Normalization of Trade

The “Inner Circle” are decision makers in CCP. I don’t know which people exactly, but it’s most definitely also CCP Hellmar, CCP Navigator, Game Designers. I believe CCP Falcon used to be a part of the Inner Circle as well, but please don’t quote me on that. Roleplayers might be able to shed a better light on this?

“Milita War Laws” are game mechanics about and around “Faction Warfare”. Three months of PvP related events and changes are coming up, beginning on the 14th of January. I don’t see how this could be purely a coincidence. What I’m really wondering about, where you might be able to help me, is what “Normalization of Trade” is supposed to be meaning?

Does anyone have an idea?

Hard to say, really, since it’s taken from a lore/backstory type post.

In game development, when they talk about “normalizing” mechanics, they usually mean “bring all the aspects of this feature into reasonable parity with other aspects, and other parts of the game”. That typically means adjusting the highest and lowest performing areas so that all parts of that feature perform roughly the same, and are on par with other parts of the game. For instance, “normalizing bounty payouts” would mean making bounty payouts roughly equivalent across all sectors, with maybe a 30% difference between the lowest payouts and the highest.

In politics/trade, “normalizing” usually means ensuring that the normal channels of trade are available and supported, and are not unduly affected by tariffs, taxes, fees and other barriers; or by military/insurgent/police actions and restraints. In that case it basically means “getting business back to normal” - although it sometimes only means “we’re no longer embargoing trade and confiscating shipments in this region”.

Yulai, Genesis – Peace talks between the major powers focused on recent flashpoints in the militia warzones, not least the Amarr invasion of Floseswin IV, resumed in the New Year with renewed focus on closing loopholes created by the interaction of the Yulai Accords, Yulai Convention and the CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act YC110.

Fw militia will no longer be able to engage eachother in hi-sec without concord response. This will allow militias to ‘normalise’ trade in opposing faction market hubs.

■■■■ i hope I’m wrong.

Why do I have this sinking feeling that you’re not?


I pray you are wrong, because if you aren’t all those “EVE is dying” posts might actually be true.

Maybe he’s wrong. It might be about the LP store and the permanent up and down swinging of prices depending on which side currently “wins”. Of course I can only speculate. Maybe you’re right and they’re doing something to prevent all new fw players from getting smacked by permatanking station campers.

Let’s hope.

And perhaps the reference to concord is going to be about neutrals going suspect in fw sites.

By the way, what’s wrong with CONCORD forcing all fw activities to lowsec?

Meaningful choice and commitment. Fw players occasionally run missions in hi-sec and move stuff in haulers. I bet they even mine. So hunting them is still possible.

Just like regular decs, fw is completely optional, comes with plenty of warning and easy to get around. I don’t see why players need anymore protection or allowances.

If anything I’d dial back npc presence to allow more fw pvp in hi-sec.

What meaningful choice and commitment? Could you elaborate on that?

There’s probably just a dozen people who really stick to highsec, willing to deal with the faction navy. All I know is that there is this huge problem of permatanking station campers who keep shooting clueless new fw pilots at the undocks. Sure, that’s a problem of education, but apparently that problem isn’t going to go away so easily, else it would have by now.

Then there’s the hauling problem. I’ve talked to people about this. It’s generally encouraged for everyone to have his own hauling alt. By everyone I mean everyone. Of course, more successful corporations eventually have one dedicated character for that job, but still. It’s one of the bigger hurdles for pretty much everyone and apparently borderline mandatory. I’d love seeing that go away.

For some reason there is no dedicated “faction warfare” trucking corporation dedicated to deliver ships and modules to faction warfare pilots in lowsec.

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To the war. It is itself a meaningful choice and a commitment.

Like station camping during a wardec?

It truly is a problem of education and unwillingness to work with others. A ‘permatanked’ undock camper can be forced to dock by using a couple brawl ships. You can fairly safely engage fw targets in your own space, even have dps help from npc’s. The faction warfare player has a whole bunch of players to ask for help, even outside his own corp.

They can use insta-undocks, or different stations.

And remember, they volunteered to join this war and it clearly states they are engagable anywhere.

All the same rules that apply to facing gankers and normal wardecs apply to faction warfare all the same. New players aren’t being targeted. They don’t have to use stations that are frequently camped. They don’t have to join faction warfare at all.

It’s highly recommended because why not? It’s not mandatory as much as very easy and cheap to do. Even alphas can have hauler alts with a single account. Insta undocks are just as recommended, but it’s because they are easy and cheap to set-up more than mandatory.

There are folks out there that don’t use hauler alts. They just don’t go to jita (or whatever the opposing markets are).

Black frog do a fine job.

Yes. Have you ever done that to a fw permatanker? What do you think is going to happen? He’ll dock and wait you out. You can’t be there 24/7. Time is on his side. Eventually you will leave and he can keep going on. If you’re thinking you can just keep alphaing him off the field, then you’re mistaken, unless you want to continuously throw hundreds of millions at him in the hopes that he’s going to explode.

You make it sound like this hasn’t ever been an actual problem and is easily dealt with, but if it was, then those people wouldn’t exist.

That’s obviously not what’s happening. We need to stick to what’s real, not to what we want to be real. Like this here:

We know that. They don’t. For years nothing changed that, so why would you even bring it up? Stick to what’s real, not to what should be real.

I’m sorry, but you need to find an actual argument here. It doesn’t matter if they have to join, or not. What’s important is that they are joining and that these people are a problem which can not actually be dealt with, just like the Orcas.

Because telling every new player that he’s required to use at least two characters, to actually play faction warfare properly, is complete and utter nonsense. Why would I need to explain this to you? It’s self evident that this isn’t a good way forward. There’s a difference between people wanting two or more characters or people who require two or more characters.

Currently, despite some people claiming that you need two characters at least to have fun, most activities do not require two characters. In FW, when you don’t have your own trucking alt, then you’re going to have a worse time! Alphas or not! It might be free to own Alpha trucking chars, but it should not be required just so you don’t lose your ship to some people you didn’t even know where sitting there, virtually unkillable, while farming everyone who doesn’t understand what’s going on.

What are you going to write now? That people should be educating new players better? That CCP should do this or that better? I’d just, again, point out that we need to stick to what we have and not what should be. Apparently the “should be” never materialized for one reason or another and we need to accept that!

It’s as if, inside your bubble, you’re thinking there’s plenty of options, ignoring that there’s hundreds and thousands of different people who can not ever be aware of everything, can not ever all be able to pay for hauling services instead of acknowledging at least organizational problems, ignoring that there should not be any gameplay which requires to characters, ignoring that it’s a problem when virtually unkillable ships shoot people who “should know better” AND wrongly thinking that they can actually be dealt with. Ignoring that things obviously aren’t working properly while coming up with “should be” as if they meant anything else but keeping the barely functional status quo alive.

I challenge you to dedicate your time and efforts to getting rid of FW station campers in highsec. When you think it through, you’ll notice that there is absolutely no way of getting rid of them, because they can just switch alts to a different station and come back when you’ve left. You’ve achieved nothing but wasting your time and learning that your idea of how it should work might not be how it actually works.

I’d challenge you to making a new char, joining a corp and going through the process, but that’s silly. I admit that I did not do that myself either, but unlike you I’ve at least talked to enough people to understand how it works.

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I’ve just realized that i’ve wasted all this time for writing a text about things which aren’t even worth talking about, because it’s all just speculation and we don’t have anything to gain from it anyway. I get the feeling that reading these forums General Discussions turns people dumber.

Like gankers?

Anyone whos stuck in a station by a fw ganker can ask for help, or force the guy to dock with a brawler. Then they are free to leave. Or insta-undock.

Yeah, you have to do it every time. Likewise i have to use a web alt everytime i go through uedama.

And people are obviously not using all the options available to avoid ganking or wardecs…they’re getting killed every day.

They aren’t required though.

Anyone who says they MUST have a hauling alt is a guilty as someone saying they MUST have insta-undocks, scout alts and web alts etc.

It’s easy. It’s cheap. It’s useful. But it’s not required.

Which will probably go down the same way as trying to get rid of gankers and wardeccers.

You don’t see the parallels?

I am going to apologise to you because I thought you showed some Sol tendencies in your posting and he tends to post on a multitude of characters. But those posts prove to me that you are indeed not him, and they were pretty damn spot on in terms of the issue. Easy kill farmers are a bane to this game, and you nailed it there. Respect to you.

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I have no answers. I keep getting reminded of all the virtually unkillable Orcas, which bother me. This thread went completely off-topic. We’re talking about things that aren’t worth talking about, because we can’t change anything about the mechanics and suggestions will be unheard or shouted down anyway, doesn’t do anyone any good. At least not for me.

I still want to know how they imagine the normalization of trade happening. My best bet is that it’s really about the up/down swings of LP stores, or rather, the fact that farmers dictate the war and that’s absolutely nothing I like. New players and their fun should be dictating how the war progresses, not farmers only caring about their income and nothing else.

Or you know its just RP/Lore fluff and means absolutely nothing at all.

That’s unlikely, simply because it doesn’t fit with the rest. “Reform” and “Normalization” both stand for “change”, which means it’s unlikely to be fluff.

I’d like you to be right I really would, some changes are needed. But this article is in the “World News” section, that deals with Lore and such.

Announcements for changes are usually in the “Eve Online News” section.

Just my opinion anyway :woman_shrugging:

Actually there are always hints about future changes in the world news. Even the selling to PA was foreshadowed, but I don’t know how to find that information. It’s not particularly easy finding certain bits and pieces without actually reading through all of them. The problem isn’t that there’s no information there, but that we’re rarely aware of it being there.