Sounds like EVE is a PvP game but that some people insist that they want to avoid any risk even if this makes the game harder for themselves?
Eve is more than simply a PVP game. It’s also a complex economic and industry simulator as well.
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Oh definitely.
It’s a complex game with PvE and PvP elements everywhere. But to call it ‘not a PvP game’ would be misrepresenting it, when the only PvP-free part of the game is the tutorial zone.
“Some people”? You mean most. The overwhelming majority.
Majority rules. You like PvP and that’s great, but it’s delusional at this point to pretend it is the main gameplay style. PvP is, has been and will always be a minority playstyle in EVE. And that’s fine. The game would collapse overnight without HiSec and all those risk adverse carebears.
You can PvP in SWTOR. That doesn’t make it a PVP game. Same goes for most MMO’s. The fact that you have to quantify a game as a “PvP game” in the broadest terms (PvP merely exists in the game) tells me you fully understand EVE is just not that game rather you’ll admit it or not. A game like Mortal Online can claim to be a PvP MMO. Games like Fortnite or Marvel Rivals are PvP games.
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The issue isn’t that PvE exists, it’s that PvE in highsec is too profitable by orders of magnitude. Most players do exclusively PvE, and most do so in highsec. I’d rather we incentivise them to move out into low and null. That way the minority of PvPers get more opportunities to fight, and the majority of PvEers have the fights spread out among them such that no one player is going to feel there are too many predators going after the prey. It furthermore would create more fights where the PvEr could reasonably try to fight back, which might give some a taste for the PvP lifestyle, and you’d see a lot of opportunism and cut-throat behaviour between PvErs in various sites.
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Do not mistake all people in high sec for PvP-averse players. There’s gankers, war deccers, suspect baiters in high sec too. There’s people who stay within the law but still steal loot from other players by entering their sites with superior dps, or hacking cans of sites of other players. A number of high sec players are alts of players who also play in other parts of the game, like incursion alts of null sec players, or hauling alts of null sec players. Some of them are PvP players, who just happen to be in high sec. Like me, the last few days.
And that’s just high sec. Outside high sec everyone has to pay attention to PvP all the time, even if doing non-combat activities. Explorers, gas huffers, they all have to actively avoid other players if they wish to survive in this game outside HS, which all is part of PvP interaction.
If the ‘majority rules’ why is it that every CSM the majority of votes isn’t going to high sec candidates? Surely with so many high sec players who are not alts of players in low sec, wormholes or null sec, high sec would get more candidates?
While I’m not saying that the majority of players is looking to fight other players, the majority of players is participating in the PvP gameplay of avoiding getting killed by other players.
I have never played SWTOR. I have played other MMOs which have some PvP on the side, like World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online and RuneScape. Or a non-MMO game like Path of Exile which also has some (very unbalanced) PvP on the side.
But in all those games PvP is a side-activity. Not something the entire game economy is built on, something all of the combat choices you have are meant to be used for, something ever present in the entire game.
EVE is different than such games. EVE is a game which has PvP as one of it’s fundaments. The entire ship roster in EVE has many ships which are plain useless if you do not partcipate in PvP, while all of those ships see PvP combat and have stats balanced around PvP combat.
Yes, you can play EVE without actively attacking other players. You can play EVE and avoid getting killed by other players, but even that is the activity of you outplaying other players by being docked before they attack your ship, paying attention to the directional scanner or names in local.
Or are you saying you never look at local chat to see if there are any threats with you in system? That too is PvP.
EVE is a PvP game and many of those ‘high sec care bears’ you mention engage in it too, either on their main characters, some by suspect baiting, others by staying within the laws but stealing loot from sites through superior dps, ship bumping, and many just through the minimum of effort of docking up when gankers show up in system.
EVE may not be a game solely about PvP, you can do many other activities, yet EVE is a game built on PvP.
Actually, the devs are the ones who “rule”, they designed the game to be pvp centric. Even if the majority rules though, the biggest activities that get player numbers are in null sec and low sec. High sec is populated so that players can earn ISK to pvp with, or to trade.
Yes, and the economy isn’t effected by PVP either, like it is in EVE. The devs don’t call it or design around PVP either. Out of 10+ game play loops, only like 3 are PVP and the PVP doesn’t spill over into PVE. The PVP is opt in only.
Yeah. And they are a tiny minority. Like PvP in general. Despite all the attention and marketing.
Again, you broaden the meaning to encompass everything because you have no real argument. Hacking is not PvP. Selling stuff on the market is not PvP. Manufacturing ships is not PvP. Mining is not PvP. Blowing up mobile Depots is not PvP. Looting yellow wrecks is not PvP. Simply being outside of HiSEc is not PvP. I don’t even consider ganking AFK freighters to be PvP (but I’ll allow it). Players exchanging fire with each other is PvP.
“Majority rules”, in the context of my post, is meant to state that the majority of encounters between players is not PvP. Therefore, if the majority are doing non-PvP activities then the game cannot be a PvP game. It’s not about any actual rulership. No player rules EVE, not casuals nor alliances. CSM is for the alliances. It is not nor has it ever been for the casual masses. A minority voting in unison can always secure more votes than a majority that does not vote or votes randomly. You think the average HiSec player reads through 40+ CSM candidates or even cares about the CSM? The only name they know is Mike Azariah. And that’s if they are active in rookie chat.
PvP is a side-activity in EVE too. People can do it or they could not.
And following your logic applied to make everything in EVE PvP, PvP is not a side-activity in games like WoW either. You’d have to include competition over NPC spawns to be PvP, material gathering to be PvP, item making to be PvP, market pricing to be PvP, etc. In which case, by your own logic, it’s everything. Thus, diluting the term to the point where there is no distinction. PvP=PvE. I guess carebears don’t exist. They’re just as much PvPers as warring alliances actually shotting at each other. In fact, mining might be the most hardcore form of PvP.
“Look at muh salvaging skillz. All dat sucka can do is lock me and cry in chat. I’ma leet PvPer, ya’ll!” Eat your heart out Kelon Darklight!"
And yet it’s not.
Under the dev’s rule they have made a game that is populated by a majority of PvE players. And, as Anna Dyneaux pointed out, made a game design which encourage HiSec play and discourage Lo/Null play for the vast majority of players.
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Oh, I’m pretty sure they know me…
And yet it’s low sec and null sec activities that draw player numbers and participation, not hi sec activities (aside from the occasional war dec).
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I started playing in 2008, what brought me to Eve was seeing Exploration videos made by a player named D’Nightmare… I actually set my skill training specifically for that…
In fact most of us players who joined at that time in NPC RUN Corp didn’t care about Low / Null Sec… While I trained for Exploration, most of the other players were training to do High Sec Mining, Manufacturing and Missions…
So yeah, people claiming players joined Eve because of Low / Null Sec activities are basically talking BS…
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No one is saying that players joined EVE only because of low/null sec activities. People aren’t even saying that there are not PVE’ers that do exist. What people are saying though is that every gameplay loop that exists has some form of PVP attached to it, unlike many PVE centric games. There is no way a player can play the game and not be subject to a player attack (excluding the newbie zone). People who are claiming that this game is not PVP centric are either trolling or living in a bubble.
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And why would they?
You’re speaking specifically about PvP. During any given big battle all those people pale in comparison to the denizens of HiSec doing mundane HiSec things. You’re comparing the biggest pixie fairy to the average dragon.
There is no way a player can play the game and not be subject to racist/sexist comments. Ergo, it is an insult centric game. We’ll just ignore the fact that the overwhelming majority of people are not posting offensive comments in the various chats. The mere possibility of something makes the entirety the game centric to that possibility. Even if that possibility does not actually materialize to any significant degree.
You can also go to null and low and not shoot someone nor be shot at by players. Ergo, null and low are PvE centric. 
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You are forgetting the part where the game creators says what it is, which is a pvp centric game. Yes there are people who only want to do PVE, it’s a choice that is possible, no one is denying that. Ship balances are centered around PVP or the economy, not PVE.
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Except when we do get numbers of people doing the popular hi sec things, they are out matched by popular fights. 2 large coalitions go after each other has way more pilots involved than these campaigns do.
You may point at the fact that the PVP tasks aren’t done mostly…that’s due to being able to deny flying in qualifying ship hulls more than anything else.
I too had my worries about this, but they seem to have been unfounded. Tell us about your experience in FW.