Instant market ESI needs to stop

Imagine feeling the economic pressure of automation irl, you come home to play your space game but find your relaxing activity in eve has too been automated, :(. You unsub & go play a skill based game instead :).

Instant market ESI pulls (every 15 mins) needs to end. Only during downtime (once 24hrs) should pulls be answered to service all basic market tool functionality.

Too much of the market is controlled by out of game botting, too much of the market is controllled by a near fully automated insta 1 isking minority.

By limiting the pull to once per day a natural trade market with lots of new traders, many of them subscribing will form.

The baseline trade price will still be stable owing to the downtime esi pulls which allow bots & out of game spreadsheets to update.

This is long overdue, make Eve real not the botters haven it currently is. This change would be a huge win for the actual eve community, a huge blow to RMT & botters as well as massively increasing 1/4 subscription profits for CCP. For every tool’d 1 isking esi pulling trade account you will get 7 subscribing small time trader 1 iskers bringing flavour to this ever sterile bot fest game.

If changed monitor in game pulling & ban automation when encountered.

Tl;dr Market esi is killing player numbers, espicially new playwr numbers, close it & allow for natural trade markets.

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Did your Brewlar account get banned again?


…is this 2 year old copy pasta? The things you’re crying about aren’t even relevant anymore. 1 isking? Bots modifying orders repeatedly? What?


Market bots are not relevant? K.

Do you have proof they’re bots or are you just salty?


Those who cannot beat the bots, complain about the bots.

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I’ve been doing a lot of trading in Jita recently, and I’ve seen no compelling evidence of market bots whatsoever. If there are lots of market bots currently operating, they are either (1) not trading in any of the things I’m currently trading in, or (2) have been written so as to look as much like human traders as possible.

So, I’ve got to ask, “you got any evidence to back up your assertions?” Where are they operating? What are they trading in? How do you distinguish these bots from humans?

Moreover, I’m a human, and I benefit from ESI pulls. So, from what I can tell, you are proposing changes that would hurt real players, just to fix an overblown/non-existent problem.

[Please add in the sarcastic inflection in your mind when you read this] Yep, that’s definitely what’s killing new player retention.

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  1. Market bots are not a problem
  2. If you believe bots “win” by 0.01 isking constantly, you should totally apply that strategy yourself. See what happens to profits lol

To clarify botting (automation) of an eve activity is not always against the rules, the majority of market botting (automation) occurs outside the client utilising esi to pull data into a workbook, spreadsheet which then allows an at key player to input a market change into the client. An ingame bot can also fully automate this process which is against the rules.

This is bot trading in the sense of irl market trading, you are running an automated spreadsheet that is operating off a data preset where your only transaction inputs are authorisation. In contrast to natural trading where you may refer to data but make an active choice on day to day trading transactions.

By limiting esi pulls to downtime, a natural market would occur. In real life a balance is sought between bot trading & manual trading depending on the market.

The consensus that botting is good for irl markets providing quick acting stability where desired. A stock does not care how many traders it has just how many stocks are moving. CCP does not value ISK or in game items, they theoryise that they have no value their only concern in regards is the amount of traders as that equals subscription revenue. Market esi reduces trader amounts & thus subscription revenue.

Since eve is a game, ccp reliant on player sub for turn over & overal a desire for conflict & instability I feel market automation best limited to downtime.

Turn off ESI market end points for a month and see what happens,

My predictions,

  1. A sharp decline in RMT & increase to RMT ISK $.

  2. A sharp rise in player subscriptions.

  3. A longterm neutering of obtainment of unassailable ISK.

  4. A greater mean spread of wealth between players.

My experience, I am one of the greatest natural Eve traders, period. I could bot trillions using out of game automation but why would I? This is a game lets play it, n+1 is the sad state of eve currently.

N+1 is leading to n-1 (subscriptions) “eve is dying”.

CCP lead devs, repeat time & time again about wanting a natural TQ. Pull the plug on market esi. Allow it in downtime to retain base market tooling.

I want to see hustle & bustle markets with people trading not the bzzzzzz of automation. Eve is a game lets play it.

And yet here you are whining that other people are “botting” by using ESI.

What does that even look like?

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So… eliminate day trading, market arbitrage, and checking markets for things you want more than once a day, simply because these are things that can be botted and to some extent are? Whats next, delete literally every form of ISK making because guess what, almost everything you can name as a way to make ISK gets botted

I’m my own bot. I log in and manually check prices. Even JC to other trade hubs to check and manage orders.
Inefficiency FTW

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You’ll still be able to check bulk 23/7, it’ll just be updated at dt. This will have litterally no effect on daily purchasing it’ll just stop the 1% automation of the market 23/7, automation will still happen daily at dt.

When you pop to the shop for milk do you phone ahead to make sure they have milk or are you fine knowing they likely do from a previous < 24hr observation.

Market esi is abused by 1%, 99% will not miss it & will actively benefit from its removal.

Clearly ccp has too many new subs, their servers can’t handle the player retention so they actively supress it.

Love seeing people who lose arguments and get shut down start making outlandish claims like this, as if it helps their case.

So I’m just a player who doesn’t really mess around with the markets that much. That being said, if I’m looking to buy (or sell) a module that is particularly expensive (100mil+), I will check evepraisal several times a day, several days in a row to figure out when it will be cheapest to purchase.

This analogy is invalid, because thats not how arbitrage works. Arbitrage happens because of specific market orders, and they usually come and go pretty quickly. For example, at the very moment Im writing this there are 2 Raitarus for sale at 410M each in Dodixie, and Amarr has 2 buy orders for Raitarus at 525M each. Without realtime market ESI this opportunity would be nearly impossible to spot, because the buy orders came after DT and you’d have to be lucky to randomly check Raitarus. People like me would lose a lot of money making potential and exactly who benefits? Botters. Unlike humans, bots can rapidly check random items across regions looking for margins to be made, so you benefit the very people you’re trying to hurt.

When you have to use fancy words to explain your poverty.

You make 20bn ISK loan posts, who borrows 20bn isk and calls others in eve poor?

Me. Deal with it.

I think I’ll just tag you with ‘‘ignore, space pleb.’’.