I noticed these were not posted yet so here goes:
Parts one and two of an interview with @CCP_Delegate_Zero , the lore dev at the moment.
(I have nothing to do with these personally, just passing the message, so direct any questions to DZ or @Arrendis .)
what is the Gallente storyline even about?
Well, thatâs not encouraging.
Well Iâm not discouraged by it exactly, but I canât really shy away from the fact that Iâve encountered that sentiment a fair bit. The flip side is that recognizing this is something that people question means we can address it.
As I recall the positioning some time ago was that the Gallente Federation most closely resembled âreality,â and therefore served as the foundation (perhaps Foundation) from which the other factions could diverge. That is a reasonable strategy, but it does create a âWorf problemâ for the Gallente. All the other factions demonstrate how interesting they are by doing new and exciting things that Just Donât Happen in the Real World (and therefore in the Federation).
Dynastic drama: Amarr. Sinister megacorporations: State. Anarchists running naked and free: Republic. Holo stars being catapulted into political power: I wouldnât recommend it.
The Federation is an excellent fit for Golden Era science fiction âwe put the exploration in space exploration.â It would be nice if the real world got back into that groove. There is plenty of room for the Federation to explore âupâ or âdownâ without running into null sec plot complications.
Uh⌠a tribal society where clan/tribe leaderâs word is pretty much law, but where there is a âlower houseâ parliament.
Funny anarchists, if you ask me.
Does not take away from your point tho. Gallente are hard because they are an exaggeration of certain things that go in our current societies.
Thatâs only true on a very superficial level and falls apart quickly with reading. The Federation is not a real life stand in and treating it like one hurts both pre-established lore and handicaps lore going forward. But Iâm repeating myself. (Thereâs not an example of a holostar being elected to public office. Not sure where youâre getting that from.)
More importantly, why would a person label the Republic/Minmatar anarchists? Where does that come from?
No, it is not, but it is kind of⌠a scifi land that follows from certain pathways that are easier to (a lot of Western) people to identify with than say tribal societies or theocracies. That is both a strength (easy to identify with, easy to work with) and a weakness (easily falls flat if analogies to rl are taken too far).
Anytime I need some of that tribal flavorâŚ
I get what youâre saying. Youâre presenting a wider perspective very reasonably, and to a certain extent, structurally, you make solid points- but it disregards the Intaki, Mannar, and Jin-Mei, who donât follow European convention, and their critical positions in the story of the Federation! I donât think a person can really even use âWesternâ as a synonym for European here, because that would cause confusion with regards to the Mannar being Mesoamerican inspired. Anytime someone takes the perspective that the Federation follows Western tropes, the Intaki, Mannar, and Jin-Mei are forgotten, and thereâs really nothing of interest in Federation lore without them.
(To say nothing of the Minmatar population besides.)
Whether or not it âshouldâ be, the Federation is a caricature of Western Liberal Democracy and the abuses which can be justified in the name of Freedomâ˘. The fact that the societies contained within the Federation are treated as window dressing is consistent with that caricature.
As for anarchists, whatever.
As for where the holo star catapulted into political power came from, OH COME ON.
Yikes.
Yes, and none of the other empires follow their âstereotypeâ completely or only. Thereâs variations and nuances and exceptions in EVE lore everywhere.
I think the both of you make good points in debating the merits and drawbacks about the Federation.
In regards to the Federation and itâs own story, it has had a unique and interesting storyline throughout itâs history that was written up and given to us as a means of giving more depth and nuance to the Federation, in the same vein as the history of the Empire, which can both be found on the Fiction Portal or on Backstage Lore Wiki. The Fed can have many stories involved within the world, befitting its unique position in the world of eve, but it would be unfair to ask just one person to provide focus on all four empires with the same precision and depth. Perhaps that is a case that can be made to acquire more staff to help with lore development and live events etc.
Whilst the Fed does have that democracy angle which is familiar to us living in âwestern societyâ, I do not feel that the Federation in the current form is a clear or carbon copy of our current societies at all, especially as Triss pointed out that the inclusion of the Mannar, Jin-Mei, Intaki and other member races that have widely different cultural values and identities which are not western-inspired, as well as the fact that no single identity in the Fed holds an absolute majority over the others, again a rarity in IRL.
Equally, Else raises a good point that the Fed can bottom out if IRL analogies are taken too far in respect to the Fed as from a glimpse it could be seen to be too familiar with IRL society, especially as many players that actively roleplay (yes I know âeveryoneâ roleplays) reside in states that are democratic in nature. Maybe this is something else that could be worked on to separate the Federation from IRL analogies which arenât necessarily correct or fair.
I think that IRL analogies are unavoidable. Even if theyâre not intended, theyâre going to be made, for better or worse. The obvious issue is that the meaning of them depends on personal opinions but thatâs a whole other issue. If I call something âSpace Tazmaniaâ, most people will have a completely different interpretation of what that might mean, etc. Theyâre not an entirely bad thing though, they can in some cases make things easier to understand for people who are new to things, and their understanding can be expanded later on once they have a decent grasp of the basics.
The way that lore is typically structured tends to separate things. The Jin-Mei, Intaki, and other member races might as well not be in the Federation as far as things are typically presented, or at least theyâre not the main members of it. For a lot of people, âThe Federationâ refers to the Ethnic Gallente and close to no one else, and the surface lore typically supports this interpretation. Naming it The Gallente Federation was probably poor planning in that regard.
It would have been natural, given Caldari State, Amarr Empire, and Matari Republic. Calling it simply âThe Federationâ would have raised issues in the beginning, âUnited Somethingâ would raise different issues, âUnited Federationâ would multiply those issues. But with the benefit of hindsight, not using a particular culture in the name would have been an opportunity to showcase something unique about what can now probably just be called The Federation.
I think, hmm, I think what people understand when theyâre interested in an EVE ethnicity but overlook when theyâre not is that having lore about an individual member of an ethnicity is not the same as having lore about an entire ethnicity. Intaki roleplayers seem to understand that while some conclusions can be drawn from President Foiritan about broader Intaki lore, lore about Foiritan himself is not immediately Intaki lore. So when the elections happen, and the Federation has a bunch of detailed lore crop up about a bunch of interesting candidates with policy discussions, that can look like itâs catering to a wide selection (weâve had Mannar, Minmatar, Jin-Mei, and Caldari candidates, all with several articles each dedicated to them and their stances) it feels shallow to the people who immerse themselves in those subdivisions.
Thatâs not a problem, say, the Caldari have, where I think sometimes people forget the Deteis and the Civire distinction. Of course, the lore also suggests thatâs more of an outlook thing, too. But then you get into the fact only three of the Big 8 actually have personalities, when the Big 8 are supposed to stand in for that.
There is a lot of good ethnic Gallente lore on the fiction portal, and definitely more than other Federation identities. For some reason, itâs not very integrated in game or in news articles? But thatâs a separate issue, and that issue plagues every faction, I think.
Wander what Drifters lore lead to? I mean Drifter Wormholes, nexus sites, elements, coalesced element. Its deadend so far. Was super excited when observatories first appeared, as unknown objects at first. Then got super frustrated when realised there were phases of decay for the structure and phases of development for the story. And until next stage there wasnt puzzles to be solved.
I understand its equally ftlrustrating for devs to develop something for months for it then be solved in a day. But there has to be a way for both parties to be satisfied.
Still love EVE lore for depth and interconnectedness )
Just watched latest Pulse. @ccp_burger wtf?
Firstly it bothered me how Trigs were introduced without proper introduction, they had no story or anything and we got their ships and clothes immediatly. But I thought weâd discover something in the future.
And we did. Months later in Lore bits we found out they invited us to their proving grounds, and they seemed to be ok with our presence in Abyss according to Lore bits that followed.
And now Creative Director tells us Invasion is their revenge for us diving into Abyss. Thats like sending all that Lore preparation of last 2-3 months to shodder. Ruining continuity and consistency.
Are we 5 year olds and they think any techy-slang with âjoveâ, âprecursorâ, âancient alienâ here and there will do instead of consistent story?
@CCP_Delegate_Zero is CCP_Burger acting as unreliable narrator here? You gave up on consistent storytelling? I got it wrong? Diana Kim was right?
The first recorded expedition was attacked on sight.
DZ: Yes. And again, I think itâs understandable, because I think itâs objectively true that Amarr had quite a lot of spotlight for a couple of years. Some people might say longer. Iâm not sure thatâs true, but certainly, for a couple of years, focused around the two years that sort of pivoted around the coronation. Well, the death of Jamyl and the succession and coronation. Thatâs kind of a lot of Amarr storyline.
Disgusting storyline in recent years about Amarr. Without giving players the opportunity to influence the events in Safizon. For this staged a boring succession in the form of a championship among Amarr. Poor attitude towards those who were against the death of Jamyl Sarum. Although you had two scenarios for this character.
At the moment in the game there are still errors that are uncorrected to this day. The characters of the new heirs of the Great Houses have not been revealed yet. No portraits of these heirs.
In the current state, the factions (Amarr / Gallente / Minmatar / Caldari) are inactive against the background of what is happening in New Eden. I want to remind you that the four major Fractions are in a state of war, but for some reason they are implementing joint military projects for you.
I can continue to continue, but perhaps enough.