[Into the Abyss] Refitting in Warp/Pre-Warp


(CCP Lebowski) #1

Greetings enthusiastic mid warp refitters!

As many of you may have noted in the patch notes for the tomorrows release (posted late last week), we have made a small but far reaching change to the fitting ability of ships in space, restricting their ability to refit whilst in warp, or in the pre-warp state (once their warp drive has been activated).

While this change was triggered by a bug found in the Factional Warfare restrictions to warp core stabilizers (also slated for tomorrows release), we understood that that particular issue was very minor when compared to the far reaching effects of being able to refit while warping, and in itself was no reason to make a change to this. However, as is often the case when a mechanic such as this is brought up for whatever reason, a discussion ensued surrounding whether the refitting in warp mechanic improves EVE or not. Some questions that are often brought up in these situations are things such as:

  • Does the interesting gameplay outweigh the added complexity and unintuitive hard to discover mechanic?
  • If we didn’t have warp refitting in the game yet, what would be the arguments in favour of adding it?

Ultimately, after some discussion, we chose to land on the side of removing this feature, and duly added information of this to the patchnotes. Almost immediately after the news reached the eyes and ears of the playerbase it was clear that this feature, however unknown and unintuitive to some, had a really special place in the hearts of many. Some spoke passionately of fights where mid-warp refitting had their hearts racing and swung the tide of battle, others bemoaned the “dumbing down” of the sandbox in order to cater to a minor exploit in one subsection (and although this was never close to the full picture, my personal responses on the subject didn’t help to quell this myth and for that I apologize). Many pilots wrote numerous passionate and reasoned responses. As a result of this feedback and after further discussion today within the team, we’ve decided that the positive effects of restricting warp refitting are far outweighed by the negative sentiment surrounding it, and the interesting gameplay it allows for many.

As such, due to your feedback, we will be reverting this change and pilots will continue to be to refit while in pre-warp and in warp.

We’d like to thank all those who contributed constructively to the discussion surrounding this. As I’ve mentioned in a few places now, while text based conversations are often not the best medium for such things, I personally think that our ability to have a frank and open dialogue with the playerbase is one of the aspects of working for CCP that I take most pride in. We understand that EVE is a game that breeds incredible passion and that when we push forward with contentious changes, that passion can often surface as white hot seething rage in what can often seem like an intentional attack on a certain playstyle or feature, or a complete disregard for how the game is played. While this response is (to some degree) inevitable due to the nature of the sprawling, complex, beautiful, mad, sandbox game we’re all creating together, I want to emphasize that the best way to ensure that we at CCP are able to action on your feedback is to ensure that is reasoned, constructive and backed up with evidence, even if it is based solely on your own specific experiences. That’s not to say you can’t call me names occasionally (This is EVE after all), but I’d ask that you at least stick with the format of:

“You are an idiot, because [reasoned argument with evidence]”

If you want more info on how to make yourself heard to the Dev team, I cannot recommend this post enough, written by now Ex-CCPer Greyscale (hosted elsewhere, RIP old forums)

Thanks again for all your contributions and responses,

CCP Lebowski, for Team Five 0


(Arthur Aihaken) #2

So does this mean WCS will still be banned from FW complexes? And what about banning mobile depots and ships like the Venture from FW complexes as well? Might as well nail the lid shut on these as well.


(CCP Lebowski) #3

You will still be unable to activate a FW acceleration gate with a WCS fitted.


(Arthur Aihaken) #4

Sorry, was still editing (see second part above re: mobile depots and Ventures). Wasn’t expecting so quick a response! Thanks.


(CCP Lebowski) #5

No problem! :slight_smile:

At this time we have no plans to make changes in that respect (as we are incredibly close to the release). This may change in the future if we feel such things undermine the WCS restriction.


(Arthur Aihaken) #6

I can almost guarantee you that within a week you’ll hear calls to ban mobile depots, and if that’s then implemented - Ventures. I don’t know where FW is on the totem pole in terms of feature overhauls, but if you were looking for two small QoL improvements I suspect both of these would go a long way to satisfying FW players. Just my $0.02 :moneybag:.


(Kenneth Feld) #7

doesn’t matter, just enter the FW plex and drop a depot and refit the WCS. this change really did nothing to mitigate the use of WCS in a FW plex


(Arthur Aihaken) #8

That was kind of my point, yes.


(Kenneth Feld) #9

Also, banning mobile depots won’t stop nestors


(Horrorzombie) #10

So let me get this straight, you fixed the WCS problem but now creating another problem with refit during warp so now instead of people having x ship WCS they will now drop a mobile depot and refit to WCS? ??? where is this logic. why are you catering to such a small minority of people vs the overall populace who hate WCS mechanic in fw it defeats the purpose of them, being that its a place to fight and make money yes but these people who are forcing this kind of change are the plex alts who make billions a day from 0 risk that is the problem…


(Dyver Phycad) #11

It is not intuitive and actually rewarding to know this when it helps you out of a pinch. Thanks for reverting this change.

Why don’t you just stop the capturing progress (capture is an aggressive action from attackers, not the current holders of the system) if a ship with stabs is on grid within capture range? The client/server has to track this information already in any case, why not make good use of this information?


(Kenneth Feld) #12

Use the AT tournament hand of thor and just nuke them the second they fit a WCS or land in the FW plex with a WCS fitted. Pod them too, that will fix it LOL


(Khan Wrenth) #13

I think they already addressed this in another thread. Constant server checks against clients inside the complex seriously degrade performance and drain resources.


(Dyver Phycad) #14

Doesn’t the server have to continuously for range to the node anyway?


(Tipa Riot) #15

This whole refitting in pre-warp and mobile depots in plex is … effort, not worth to be implemented by botters and most people, I guess.

Nice to keep this novel mechanic, didn’t know about that this is possible before the reddit post …


(Duo Roman) #16

I think refitting during warp should not be allowed. When a player enters a battle he should fully commit with the fitted ship or not at all. Risk is greately mitigated when you can refit during warp.


(Solstice Projekt) #17

Apparently I was living under a rock…

Under what circumstances can someone change his fitting mid warp??


(QuakeGod) #18

If you are in a fleet warp with a Nestor or other ship with a fleet fitting hangar…


(Solstice Projekt) #19

Wow, I never did that and had no idea.
That’s actually amazing!


(Ember Fireheart) #20

Hmm Id rather just remove warp core stab’s from the game and put warp core stab bonus’s on ship’s that actually need it, haulers and such and then deni those ship’s access to fw plex including venture. Much easier to implement and will improve eve with 0 downside.

Argument: But I cant use my such and such a ship anymore with a warp stab.
Solution: upgrade to the t2 version with built in warp stab for your such and such need’s.

Argument: But I can’t farm Fw plex’s and devalue LP for everyone while afk on my 2nd monitor.
Response: Tough, FW plex’s are not pve content they are pvp content.