It’s permenent in W-space, seems fine to me.
Cool. So there you go - a disruptive change which according to you appears to have added value?
define added value?
It certinally makes it more absorbant gameplay and more aptmospheric
You have to d-scan, that’s more immersive gameplay
(Sucks teeth)
I “assume” what CCP refers to in various blogs as being “content”.? My whole starting premise in this discussion was that CCP was happy (prepared) to have long term alpha players in the belief that they “add content”. Which in some way is valuable for players and therefore to CCP?
Ah, well, as a tangent, thats why I fixed on salvage. Having created wrecks in missions, it seemed immersive to then strip the hulls. I was struck tho by the fact that it took me longer(?) to salvage than to create wrecks in first place. And I just wondered if there was a way to play with that.
I really like having to d-scan, it removes the dogma from the game somewhat as you immerse into the actual playing of it.
Certinally makes you not fall asleep at the helm
You fall asleep you die, simple.
I wouldn’t go that far. Don’t get me wrong, a paying customer is certainly more valuable than a free loader, but alphas help create a social critical mass and provide content in a PvP centric game. I don’t think it’s all that unlike restaurants that let small children eat free. Yeah, it’s free food for those tiny little free-loaders, but they make up for it through what they charge for the rest of the family to eat.
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My comment was less about the specific suggested item that could be buffed by your proposed approach, and more about the rationale at CCP behind restricting Alpha account activities and their income potential overall. There’s a dev blog some time in 2019 (I think) about how the decision was made to remove Level 4 mission access from Alpha clones, and I think you would find it a worthwhile read for refining your understanding of CCP’s approach to the Alpha clone state.
My primary critique in this thread is the premise that the change would drive income for CCP (I believe it would not for the reasons outlined). If it doesn’t drive revenue, and in fact has a high chance of reducing revenue, CCP isn’t likely to implement it. So, a rework of the core concept around mechanisms would be necessary to merit further exploration. Since it isn’t my proposal and I’m not vested in driving it, I don’t see a need to come up with the alternative myself - but I’m happy to answer any questions about the business logic/feasibility of alternate approaches.
Ah. Well. Yes. That is precisely what I was hoping for, from any replies. Specifically … better ideas for buffs that might be more “acceptable”. That said, a generic rebuttal based on revenue considerations (either in-game or CCP-specific) works just as well.
To be honest, that was more to address my observation that any suggested alpha changes always get hit by multi-comments on …“where’s the money for CCP?”. Well, here is an option … get alphas to pay for any buff, and using the same general concept that already exists for alpha daily injectors. As you noted, alpha players dont need those injectors, but presumably they are still buying them anyway?
OK. Leaving payment model aside, the other idea I like is mobile compression. This has come up in the forums before. As has the offhand comment that alphas who want more isk should just go mine low sec. In a period of one week, I have occasionally mined in low sec, for more isk, and also found 9/10 medium jaspet belts never have ore in them. Plus, there is zero availability of ore compression. I like the idea of ducking and diving for ore anyway - separate from the idea of engaging alpha pilots - but the two ideas do also go together in my head too. Same as buffing mission salvaging for alpha.
Again, having an alpha specific module (similar to an mtu?) means anyone deploying one would self-identify. That seems very “Eve” to me, that, in order to get an alpha-specific buff you also have to stick ALPHA on the front of your spaceship, meaning those with a disdain for freeloaders are more easily able to find you. As you say, there might not be much “money” in it for CCP but there might be “value” in it, in terms of game play.
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That is an excellent point. As I said earlier, there are people who are NEVER going omega and we know it and so does CCP.
The idea of alphas, as they currently stand, is the sort of idea that may work well for a while, but is apt to eventually stagnate, if it has not already. In such a case, it is wise to try a new approach.
Not only could current alphas be well pleased by some of these ideas, but also it could become a very good advertising point to bring in new players.
In fact, this “alpha plus” idea could even morph into a different kind of subscription altogther. I don’t have any data on numbers that would allow CCP to decide if its worth it to do, but I can imagine quite a lot of people unwilling to pay omega fees but willing to pay 1/3 or 1/4 the price for alpha plus.
On the other hand, that could be very bad for CCP because people running multiple accounts may very well drop those omegas for alpha plus characters. I doubt it though, because if alpha plus does not offer the T2 and T3 ships they skilled for, well, downgrading does not seem a likely option.
Of course they do, retaining as in making them become omega players. Your suggestions have the merit of trying to address some of the retention issues but also open the door to a very dark place with microtransactions and a certain level of pay-to-win, at least among alphas. That is something we wouldn’t even want alphas to be submitted to. And in general, asking for additional benefits in an already generous demo version of a subscription based game is not a strong move.
Since alphas only learn at half the rate, they clearly have some mental deficiencies.
So I agree. Bring back learning skills as an alpha only requirement.
Maybe learning how to learn will help them along.
This is where it gets muddy. It “might” be the intent of CCP to convert all alpha players to omega but that is not “clearly” their intent. After all, the initial big expansion to alpha - going from ONE battlecruiser only to flying ALL T1 battleships - was specifically designed to retain alpha players. And, retain them in such a way that they would not feel a subscription was a requirement to get a good (and continual) game experience.
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Let me link an earlier reply that I posted in a similar thread:
The limits to Alpha are fine as they are.
New skills and modules that are Alpha-only are completely undermining CCP and the game, where it encourages players to not pay and thus encourages players to not support the game. How do you think a game like this exists?
Playing Alpha for free is a good option if your budget and time doesn’t allow paying for the game or paying through PLEX. You still are a player in space, making the universe a little more lively. But it doesn’t pay the bills.
Restrictions to Alphas are as they are for a reason. Removing those restrictions (such as adding Covetor to Alpha) is a bad idea.
Adding restrictions to Omega, with skills and modules that are only available to Alphas is a terrible idea. What do you expect that happens when people who are Omega now need to go Alpha to access those abilities?
They stop paying.
Do you know what happens when enough Omega players stop paying?
EVE dies. For real this time.
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That is exactly why any alpha-only attributes would have to be pay-for-use. Which is what is being suggested.
And yet the starting restrictions were significantly buffed by CCP in order to retain alpha ie specifically to stop a greater proportion of alphas either leaving the game OR converting to omega. CCP did reserve the right to change those buffs, based on what players did with them, but all I think they did is reduce alpha missions to L3 but otherwise kept all the buffs?
Why would they do that? Why would access to an mtu that could pull yellow wrecks for salvage, or access to an mtu that doubles as mobile compression, encourage a T2 mission pilot or an orca flying miner to give that up in favor of becoming a buffed alpha clone?
Plus, to get that buffed alpha clone they would either have to purchase 5 M skill points first, and then pay, or, grind as an alpha for 7 months and then still pay. (Based on this proposal.)
No argument that you might still be correct, and that some of the proposed buffs would be downright “bad”. But, that’s the point of this discussion too … identifying buffs that might suit alphas but dont “threaten” omegas.
And in the mean time, that devblog with the skill list from 2017 you linked has been slightly truncated. No more techII medium drones as an example, and lower dps with drones overall (2019). With that in mind, alpha is already stretched as it is, making it indeed not “clearly” their intent to guide alphas to omega status. It is true, many rookies are confused by this alpha state, they didn’t read the finer print.
Taking that devblog out of context, as you did, doesn’t demonstrate the alpha clone capabilities of 2021. It was written in 2017 when it was felt that the existing alpha clone status up to then was too restrictive. Hence the changes announced via the 2017 devblog. Simply copying the reasons from 2017 and pasting them in 2021 is not enough.
Allowing alphas access to mining barges - especially the covetor which mines fastest - would affect the economy, something ccp strives to prevent. You would create a situation where omegas, already hit by the current shortage, would come under even bigger pressure - and guess what that will lead to …
Giving alphas advantages over omegas, as with your salvaging skill (not even omegas with maxed skills and equipment hit every time in a single cycle) and your new MTU (not even omegas can tractor yellow wrecks) is just outrageous.
And to top it off, making differences in skill sets and modules via two monetization schemes would be near impossible to balance.
There’s plenty to do and experience as casual player in alpha. 20M sp worth of it. The full game, however, is via subscription.
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If you can’t afford $15 a month then you should not be playing games you should be working on getting a job/better job.
Talk about entitled.
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Both of your points are actual intended outcomes. Potentially at least.
The advantage is to give alphas a sense of uniqueness. It’s pyschology. To encourage them to actively play. Like having quick salvage. Balance is that omega players tend to “blitz” and dont stop for mission salvage? Only a poor, slow, L3 limited alpha might really be able to get any time/ isk benefit in first place.
Outrage is in order to trigger consequences. Which is very Eve. Covetor mines fastest which makes afk almost impossible. The various forums and wiki also suggest covetor “cannot” be used solo? And yet, I am suggesting they could be given to alpha pilots, who can only run single accounts at one time, with no multiboxing. So, single, low volume ore ships that are also gank targets. Thats potentially a lot of content for omegas vs risk of not that much extra market pressure. (Unless several different alphas pool together to do their own mining/ hauling - more isk for them, more content overall = win win anyway?)
Possibly. I acknowledge you would have to balance. Not sure it could not be done tho. As to the different monetization scheme, it remains exactly as it is now … alphas would simply pay using daily injectors. There is no new payment scheme, it is simply its application that is expanded.
Nor does it recognise the potential needs of (or potential value from) alpha in 2021. Especially post-scarcity and every other tweak CCP has done in last 4 years. In the end, thats all this discussion is about. A mechanism to “buff the value” of alpha. But without dictating what those buffs might be,
And nothing in this general proposal changes any of that. It just tweaks alpha. A little. And also leverages the existing payment system to get from 5-20 M in the first place.
Fine. That’s an opinion. No argument.
That’s why the proposal is for any future buffs to alpha to come at a monetary cost. What’s entitled about that?
Actually here is a awesome Alpha Only skill:
UNDOCK: You have to get it to V before you can undock 
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