Many a true word …
… if alphas feel they have something over omegas (however trivial the actual buff) might that not encourage them to do exactly that?
Undocking more is exactly what this is about.
Alphas shouldn’t have a sense of uniqueness. If you want to matter buy the game like a normal person. There should never be any incentive to remain a non-paying parasite.
And yet, CCP thought there was, which was part of their rationale for the 2017 buffs.
EDIT: but as it is, the proposal here is to have alphas pay for any uniqueness
And then they realized that they had given too many buffs and nerfed them back down again.
EDIT: but as it is, the proposal here is to have alphas pay for any uniqueness
But they pay less than normal players, and having alpha-only skills gives incentives to pay for the one-time skill unlock and not a normal subscription.
They certainly realized some capabilities (like L4 missions) were being mis-used. But overall, nett increase in abilities still remained substantially higher. This includes continued access to all T1 battleships. Something alpha didnt have initially and which CSM at the time did not support them ever having.
Correct. And they would get much less gameplay in return. As it should be. And just as it is now.
Not really. Incentive is to get those people to be more active players. And to be players who are also now paying something.
It would still remain the case that omega play would be that much more rich. It is more about giving alphas an incentive to keep playing and less about their “avoiding” omega. You pays your money and takes your choice, but you still pay.
Except that many of the characters being left as alpha accounts are probably alts, so they just do the omega stuff on their main. There should never be a scenario where you are encouraged to keep an account in alpha status.
Incentive is to get those people to be more active players.
They have plenty of incentives already. If someone isn’t going to be active without getting special snowflake skills to make them feel wanted then they suck at EVE and don’t belong here anyway.
2 Likes
(shrug). Fine. I don’t see the problem.
I assume you mean keep an alpha and an omega account, together? But, even if so, what is the problem if players do that?
Otherwise, this becomes a circular argument, because it seems clear that CCP previously gave incentives to encourage players to maintain active alpha accounts. Without also being omega.
That’s an opinion. No argument.
Obviously you don’t, because you’ve bought into the lie of alpha entitlement. You think that alpha parasites deserve more and more stuff no matter how little they contribute.
But, even if so, what is the problem if players do that?
The problem is that it should be two omega accounts. Alpha accounts should never be incentivized. If you’re looking at a situation and saying “this would be done better by an alpha” then CCP has failed.
That’s an opinion. No argument.
It’s fact. The sort of player who need special snowflake gifts to make them feel wanted is not going to succeed in a game that rewards initiative in figuring out how to make your own fun. Their entire mindset is at odds with what EVE expects and eventually they’re going to realize this and quit. So why try to retain non-customers who aren’t your target market?
What has either of those points got to do with your assertion that many (presumably unused) alpha accounts are owned by omega players (which is also bad in your opinion)?
Again, the second point becomes circular, because I am not suggesting alpha players get more stuff, unless they pay for it. That would be their contribution, and separate from the more nebulous concept of adding more content.
Why? Why should an omega player not also have (many) alpha accounts, if that is what they want to do? Even if they can only play one at a time? Sure, they could use them collectively as free SP farms, but that’s a long grind, waiting for free points to be awarded once they reach the 5 M training limit.
And yet they were. Plus, when CCP did change those conditions, they reduced the incentives but did not remove them. So, incentives largely remain. Your argument here is with CCP. I am just proposing more incentives, but on a pay-for-use basis.
As above, your argument is with CCP, who seem to be (largely) maintaining their 2017 position that alpha players are their targets. This due to the added content/ value they provide. Just how CCP measures that value, in monetary terms, you would have to ask them.
1 Like
“Give us incentives to use your product without paying for it”
“Give us an environment that pits alphas against omegas”
Seriously …
My business sense may be mediocre at best, but I (and possibly most other omegas) view alphas as being similar to a reserve pool for new hires. You can’t stay alpha forever. You can’t continue to argue for better handouts than the free ones you already enjoy. It’s not that your alpha game quality suffers from inflation, if you get the reference.
Putting it in terms that the game publisher would never use publicly: You are given an extremely generous demo version of the game, allowing you to sample New Eden, experience its challenging complexity both in game mechanics and in learning how to play it, so you can decide if you will come aboard and pay for the product. Now you, as a player who is allowed to play without spending a single coin, are asking for advantages over full customers who pay every month. That is a disconnect with reality and, frankly, confrontational.
Of course it’s a new payment scheme, one that would go via PLEX. This alpha character, supposedly a casual player, needs to cough up 40M isk per day (current market price), according to your proposition. 1) That doesn’t sound very casual to me and 2) people will use PLEX to get the ISK to get your proposed “buffs for cash” and , PLEX as we all know, is always bought with CASH. So yes, you introduce a second payment scheme to acquire skills and what not. Moreover, you would not only pit alpha against omega, with your “advantages”, you would also pit alpha (with cash) against alpha (without cash). I take it that in your proposition the latter are of no real consequence ? And what’s the logical next step ? Pay per extra skill and squirm a way into t2 hulls ? It’s the first step towards a real pay2win scheme, an idea that is usually met with disgust in this community.
Alphas don’t need buffs, and they are not more important now than they were in 2017, not in revenue and not in the game itself. Alphas need to realize they are playing a huge free demo, giving them time to decide if they are going to commit to the game yes or no.
2 Likes
Just because CCP thought Alphas needed to have more access to stuff in 2017 before they got access to more stuff, doesn’t mean that they still need more access nowadays.
In fact, I would argue that after CCP gave Alphas more access to stuff in 2017, the entire argument that Alphas needed more stuff in 2017 is now completely outdated, as they have gained access to those things already!
Alphas are in a good place. Asking for special unique abilities for Alphas that Omegas do not have is equivalent to encouraging people not to pay for the game. And that’s simply ridiculous, selfish and plain stupid.
Who do you think pays to keep the game alive when people are encouraged to not pay?
1 Like
I don’t think its that simple. This might encourage more multiboxing. I don’t think anything suggested is guaranteed to make hoardes quit Omega. Still sounds like Omega is where the real fun and power is. I don’t think anyone is going to give up their Megathron to become a space janitor.
It’s not about hoardes. It’s about any encouragement to be Alpha instead of Omega, except price.
If a company encourages people to not pay, they’re doing something wrong.
Other payment options were mentioned.
Zero enouragment to remain alpha might seem optimal on the surface, but this is not how people think, especially when they have already locked themselves in to a way of doing things. To get them to move forward toward the destination again, it may be necessary to just get them moving at all. Once they get closer to Omega, and indeed even trying new things, it may encourage them to go all the way.
Again, I don’t know if that is going to result in monetary gains or losses, but it seems far more complicated than a simple “discourage them from staying Alpha as much as possible.” sort of stance.
1 Like
Something that came to mind was dropping the rule that you cannot have two Alpha accounts NOR an Omega and and any Alpha accounts.
It could be that you can have them, but NOT once they reach a certain level of skill points, whether used or available for use. At that point, you need to buy something, and that will keep you going for a certain amount of time before you need to buy something again.
I almost hate myself for posting that. On the other hand, ideas here seem to get 100 percent ignored so maybe its better I said it before CCP thought of it themselves.
1 Like
That is not what is proposed. It is pay-for-use. How much should/ could be charged is however an open question.
Why not? This is a sandbox. Every pilot for themselves. Again, this is an idea Im not wedded to. It is merely proposed for discussion as something CCP might buy into as being additional “content”?
CCP allows it, so why not? What is your argument against CCP’s position?
Who’s the “you” in this context? That aside, and getting back to the circular argument, how would it be a handout if alphas have to pay for it? (Whatever “it” turned out to be.)
Exactly - its only a proposition. So, its open to tweaking of numbers. But the principle still works - 400 M isk for a unique skill vs 500 PLEX for one months omega that allows access to all skills. (Eventually.) Where would the balance be in your opinion to make this more palatable? Just in theory.
An alpha would purchase skill injectors. That mechanism already exists. They might get the isk for those injectors by buying PLEX. That mechanism already exists. Nothing new here; allowing for a little semantics.
The latter have three options: stop playing, keep playing but give no money, convert to omega. All of those have real consequences.
That sounds like both a real and a reasonable argument against.
Which gets back to the circular argument(s). As far as is known, CCP still want to give alphas enough of a game where they dont need to decide to commit or not - they can just keep on keeping on instead.
1 Like
Agreed.
And back we go to the circular arguments. You would have to pay for any unique abilities, just not via a rolling subscription mechanism.
1 Like
The payment system in EvE is subscription. Simple, straightforward and honest business, creating a level playing field for all.
If you don’t see that that is the wrong type of content, splitting the community, then I can’t help you there.
I have no argument against CCP’s position. They try to make business, the business of selling subscriptions. Along the line they came to the conclusion that the old system of 2 weeks of free play was not enough to increase the numbers of subscribers. Whether the alpha clone system is the correct answer, well, if the numbers of subscriptions aren’t growing (we players of course do not know) then probably not ?
Paying via plex/cash for skills/equipment is not semantics.
Car salesperson: "I’ll teach you how to drive for free"
Potential customer: “Hmm, I dunno …”
Car salesperson: "You know what ? You can have use of the car for as long as you like, to help you make a decision. But we’ll tune the engine down a bit, and you won’t have stereo or airco or leather seats"
Potential customer: “I can use the car for free ? Great. Yeah, I’m interested.”
Car salesperson: "Now, we have some great deals on the car, if you decide you want it. We install the omitted equipment, put in a much better engine and make it full option
Potential customer: “How about free petrol and a nav system for my free car ? In return I might buy those flufffy dice from you for the rear view mirror, they look kinda cool. Then maybe ?”
Car salesperon: 
"Hmm. I don’t think so ?
Potential customer: "Come on, man. You could do with some extra business. These are hard times!
Car salesperson: …
Except when it comes to paying for skill points, skins, or PLEX - or potentially all three at once. (That’s tongue in cheek, but you still get the point.)
A reasonable point.
Again, agreed. No argument.
With the caveat tho that we ( I ) assume CCP sees some sort of value in having perpetual alpha clones who never subscribe?
Oh, I’d like to be a ccp marketing guy for just one day and do some thorough data mining in this regard, see what the effect really is 
However, with all respect to CCP, ships aren’t turned around in the blink of an eye, so new responses to consequences (of introducing alpha state) can take a while to become visible.
Added in edit:
You are correct there. And there are quite strong opinions on the whole sp extractor business. Fortunately, there are reduced returns on their use, making the benefit/cash ratio increasingly worse as one progresses. The other one, skins, who cares if someone pays for a vanity item, they don’t give benefits and make the same pretty balls of fire, right ? Well, as long as it’s not a monocle at over 60 USD iirc. PLEX is a complicated story with many aspects, different discussion
1 Like