Not taking sides here, but you are conflating two distinct concepts.
“When you have eliminated the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth” is indeed a notion of Arthur Conan Doyle, phrased multiple ways, in multiple works, and said by more detective characters than merely Sherlock Holmes. Doyle attributed it to Edgar Allan Poe when he used it the first time in The Fate of the Evangeline, but that was probably a misattribution.
Occam’s Razor is commonly phrased (in modern English) as:
“All things being equal, the simplest explanation is usually correct.” (Note the preamble, which is important. Just because an explanation is simpler, does not mean it is correct.)
Regardless, the Doyle quote and Occam’s Razor are not expressing the same idea at all.
In the Doyle quote, of two possible explanations, one is assumed impossible, therefore the other, while improbable, must be true.
In the case of Occam’s Razor, of two possible explanations, both are assumed plausible, but one is simpler than the other and therefore more likely correct.
Both assume that all possible explanations have been accounted for, but the two concepts consider very different scenarios.
The quote (“When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”) is often considered a practical, narrative version of Occam’s Razor…
Both prioritize efficiency in reasoning even though they function differently.. Doyle (Holmes) uses elimination of falsehoods while Occam’s Razor favors the simplest explanation (fewest assumptions)…
The more I read here, the more this sound like, Eve Online’s version of Presearing Ascalon in Guild Wars. The big difference here is, they are making this 20+ years after the game has been defined. I am still relatively new here, but something like this has some major red flags from my experience in Guild Wars (GW).
Many players live within the tutorial on GW, is there anything preventing the new players from refusing to leave the area? I have a “perma pre” myself there who is leveled up and achieved titles, maxed out his weapons and armor. Below is a screen shot of this area today 4/15 at 3:15 PM EST.
Take note, this is the second “American District” because number one is too full. All those blue dots on my mini map are players. This is one outpost out of 5 and there is a lot of people here trading goods. There are several sellers camped in this image who sell here on a regular basis. They farm this area and sell their loot to people here at very high prices. The currency is then transported one way to post Ascalon where it is placed in their storage container. That character is nothing more than a mule that is then deleted and returns as a fresh mule here.
PvP is not available here, only PvE is allowed. I am level 20 (max level) and the monsters are wimps here at most a level 8. I stuck around being a tour guide and doing care bear stuff here. Once you leave this area, you can not return. People have abused it. Others live here in peace and there are some repeatable missions. If you look at the top left, I have to go find Duke Gaban in the Catacombs once again.
If there is nothing to force new players out of the tutorial region, expect many will stay put to farm ISK. This area has been part of GW from day one, in fact it is day one. CCP might be opening a can of worms they are ill prepared to cope with. I can’t wait to see it.
alpha clones already are unable to set safety to red in highsec, showing that rework of system’s sec status is not necesary to make always green region, similarly it’s not the best way to gain same result: 99% shield resists boost near travel objects, inability to launch combat scanners, restricting entry based on pilot’s sec status, hidden effect making you unable to die if player damage is involved, coupled with 1 second concord reaction and them healing the victim, all of that would achive results of preventing suicide ganking of new pilots while not being seen as externaly enforsed game mechanic.
and on the topic of new player experience: out of 7 people i had convinced to try eve 2 stayed; 1 left because career agents were too boring; 1 could not get used to controls; 3 did not want to go for my activity and had no ditection to go. not once full loot pvp in full loot pvp mmo rpg was a problem. please put clear opt out long term goals (like getting to certain relations with npc corporation, with sub goals of :fitting ship with modules from wrecks, getting better ammo for lp, mining to get modules you lack) because as it is content used to introduce new players to what this game is worse than suggesting to play other simmilar games and saying eve is same but with spaceships
Are there any other opportunities to make money outside of the tutorial area?
I’d say that you’ve presented a good example of the kinds of side effects that could arise from this new Excelsior! area, but I’m wondering how comparable these are after zooming out.
If players make beans in Exeter, but need more beans to get the fancy ships, surely they’ll venture out into the wilds of 0.9 and below to get the money? It’s already known the best money in EVE is outside the playpark. If the money outside the tutorial isn’t compelling enough, there’s no incentive to leave.
Another kink in this example is the fact that in the tutorial area example you supplied, players can never return if they leave. I’d hazard that this is probably the biggest reason for how stuffed the area (and the other America etc) are, whereas in Exfiltration, players can return, this could have a comforting effect; the player knows they can come back here if it “doesn’t work out” in the big bad world. Knowing you can move back in with your parents can be comforting even if you never do it.
Of course there are tons of missions and if making platnum was my thing, I could dungeon run for Ectos which trade well in the game. Here is another key difference in GW and EVE, we never had a player market. You trade mostly in the city of Kamadan when you are playing the game. GW is a story based game where the goal is to finish the stories and less about wealth. Over in Cantha we have better PvP and even cooperative PvP with 12 vs 12.
This game with the market and economy, it could be a bad thing. I don’t know how CCP plans to do the following;
Make players leave a safe haven.
Keep the ISK in there and not leaking out into the other regions.
No, it’s not (or at least, it shouldn’t be). What you’re describing (“eliminating the impossible”) is called “the process of elimination.”
You would not use Occam’s Razor to examine a case where one explanation is plainly impossible. Occam’s Razor compares two or more possible explanations and favors the simplest as usually being right.
Regardless, it’s not a logical method, but rather a problem-solving shorthand that should not be rigidly adhered to (because sometimes, the more complex explanation is actually correct).
Hence the saying, “Be careful waving around Occam’s Razor, lest someone gets cut.”
If you have a basic grasp of logic, you shouldn’t need Google to figure this out.
Given: Occam’s Razor asks, all things being equal, of multiple explanations, which is simpler and therefore likely correct?
Question: If you have two explanations and one is impossible, do you need to determine which of the two explanations is simpler before deciding on the correct solution?
Answer: No, you do not. It’s a moot point. You merely discard the impossible explanation (process of elimination) and what you’re left with is the only solution. Simplicity is not a factor in the decision.
Occam’s Razor only applies when you have two or more explanations, either of which could be correct, but one is simpler than the other.
At first glance, there’s a tension here between @Hatch_Nasty and @DeMichael_Crimson, but it’s not quite the clash it seems. Allow me to point out, Mereological nihilism and Occam’s Razor actually pull in the same direction in some respects, though they diverge in how “simplicity” should be understood.
Why are we talking Philosophy 101 again? Maybe we all need a course in ethics. If 10 trolley cars are about to be run over by a person on one track, and there is only 1 train on the other track, while you are standing at the switch. Then suddenly you notice the train is Thomas the Train, do you throw the switch and allow Thomas to get hit by the person?
It was for verification… Like I said before, if you have an issue with it, take it up with Google..
Other than that, you already stated your viewpoint and said you’re not taking sides here yet you quickly jumped in going all White Knight for Lucy Alfrir, somebody who has a very low forum presence… I’m thinking maybe a friend or an alt…
Anyway, it doesn’t matter… This convo is done since both of us don’t care what each other has to say..
I meant that I’m not taking sides in your argument about ganking. I’m not “white knighting” @Lucy_Alfrir or supporting their position on the matter you were discussing. I only have an issue with your misrepresentation of Occam’s Razor (pedantic, I know).
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I only ever post as Hatch, my main of over sixteen years. And while there are a handful of people on this forum that I’ll go to lengths to defend, I don’t know Lucy from Adam.
Gallente instant access vs. Amarr traveling 35-ish jumps to get to Yulai entrance. Can we get Niarja back to level the field? Or maybe a Genesis-Domain gate pair like what was added between Irgrus and Pakhshi?
