Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood

[Yiole_Gionglao]

I wish I could like, super-like this message. Yeah, paying customers who pay for everything everybody else has got, little or a lot, liked or not, wrong or right, but certainly is something compared to the ZERO new missions added since the Epic arcs and that time when someone rescued from a drawer the unfinished Pirate Scarlett mission code and released it.

[Jin_taan]

@Arrendis

So the answer to ‘when was the last time solo HS got some dev time?’ is the Jove Observatories… which we know was an event that happened across all of EVE, not just HS, and the other short-term events like Purity of the Throne, the Agency, etc, where the response has been ‘uhm, ok, that was underwhelming’… and which were also active in all of k-space? (Except Purity, which was still high and low). And before that… with 2 major expansions a year, mind… seven years ago? So it’s been roughly half the life of the game?

So, content only counts if it’s exclusive to hisec? I get that it hasn’t been worked on, but I think saying that solo content has been abandoned when there is new content designed specifically for casual, solo play, just because you find it to be too easy (whilst chastising group PvE being added as ‘too hard’ by barrier of entry/socialisation) is a bit exclusive. By that kind of logic, man, NPC Nullsec has literally never been iterated on since the pirate missions were added, and Lowsec as well unless you count clone soldiers.

This is more a symptom of the troubled roadmap EVE has been walking down, with changes that have been mostly backend, via citadels (something that’s been worked on for nearing 2 years), or have fallen emphatically flat (Aegis Sov). And, here, we’re seeing the end of it

@Arrendis

Mostly, though? They want to feel like they’re not being told ‘Jesus H. Christ, we gave you something seven years ago, and you got some of what everyone got last year. Why isn’t that enough for you people?!?’. They want to be treated like they’re paying customers, too.

To that end, I just don’t see why group content isn’t the answer here. I literally held a PvE roundtable last year and the overwhelming majority of people there asked for more content, and specifically, scalable content that could be done socially. If solo play is such an important niche, I do have to ask why people didn’t bring this up at all, or why those players weren’t represented.

Also, I got my dates wrong, Burner missions were originally introduced in 2014 and more were added in 2015 along with a second release later in the year.

@Arrendis

Some of them want more interesting missions, maybe more storyline chains. Some even want to feel like their missions matter, just a little bit, to the setting.

This however, is something that I think is getting more to the crux of the issue. Do solo players want more to feel like they’re impacting the storyline, like we discussed with CCP last summit, with the idea of these small events having “sides” one could choose in order to actually impact the overall plot and what happens? Or perhaps more content like the Epic Arc?

[Jin_taan]

Resource Wars, which are specifically stated to be a PvE activity.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

Not only are those Burner missions PvP based, they’re level 4 encounter missions that a lot of other players can’t access. Not to mention those missions also require max skills and multiple bling fit ships to complete.

Definitely not the type of ‘NEW’ mission content that I want to engage in.

[Jin_taan]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Not only are those Burner missions PvP based, they’re level 4 encounter missions that a lot of other players can’t access. Not to mention those missions also require max skills and multiple bling fit ships to complete.

Right, so they’re too difficult, and as such they don’t count as content. I’d quibble about you calling it PvP when they’re literally rats, but I get where you’re coming from as they’re intended to simulate PvP from a stats PoV to make it a more challenging experience.

They don’t seem to require bling fits and I know I’ve done them in a Hawk a few times when they came out. But, if they did, in your opinion is it bad to give content where people have to test their skills, or use different fits or ships than they would in a typical Level 4 mission?

Note that I’m asking here out of genuine curiosity, as this is the real first time I’ve been able to interact with the solo PvE community, as normally you guys are incredibly quiet to the CSM, which is why we can’t tell CCP what you think.

[Arrendis]

@Jin_taan

So, content only counts if it’s exclusive to hisec?

There’s been plenty of content that’s ‘exclusive’ to null, or j-space, even if it’s only because that content is actually a rebalance of how we do things. The entire sov system is, after all, ‘exclusive to sov-null’. Rorqual mining is ‘exclusive to everywhere but high-sec’. Capital changes, same thing: ‘everywhere but high-sec’. So… .yeah, what’s wrong with them saying ‘Can we have something that’s ours?’

I don’t disagree that a lot of the work that’s been going on behind the scenes is to the benefit of everyone, but you know, we’re also a lot better at getting the information out to our guys than the people in high-sec who aren’t organized. We see the reduction of tidi with Brain-in-a-box. They usually don’t. We se the mining changes to a greater degree, because we are (or know) rorq-miners. Changes to boosting? Low and null saw that so much more than the small-scale high-sec player ever would, even in the case of mining boosts.

We see the effects of the back-end improvements, because we’re the ones who push the code to where it breaks down, where it screams. To a much, much larger extent… they don’t.

@Jin_taan

To that end, I just don’t see why group content isn’t the answer here. I literally held a PvE roundtable last year and the overwhelming majority of people there asked for more content, and specifically, scalable content that could be done socially. If solo play is such an important niche, I do have to ask why people didn’t bring this up at all, or why those players weren’t represented.

Because solo players who generally aren’t hooked into the EVE community are solo players who generally aren’t hooked into the EVE community. You tell a goon there’s gonna be a roundtable, a hundred will know in an hour. One solo HS player reads the forums… three days later, one solo HS player knows about it. Again: the very nature of the beast is that when there’s no posting of this sort of thing on the launcher, or other means of notification that the casual player can’t avoid… you’re going to get a vastly disproportionate number of socially-involved—and socially-motivated—players.

[Buoytender_Bob]

We appreciate you reaching out to the HS community, at least the large part that feels underrepresented. That’s important for EVE’'s health. The problem in the past is that CCP and the CSM have relied on mainly direct ( in person/townhall meetings) that are , quite frankly, “ballot box stuffrd” with NS/LS players looking to expand their options in HS. We know they aren"t evil or bad, they just want an aspect that would be worth (isk/LP) their time as an alternate to their current activities. Meanwhile, the majority of the HS players get ignored. I suggested a possible solution earlier in this thread.

[Jin_taan]

@Buoytender_Bob

We appreciate you reaching out to the HS community, at least the large part that feels underrepresented. That’s important for EVE’'s health. The problem in the past is that CCP and the CSM have relied on mainly direct ( in person/townhall meetings) that are , quite frankly, “ballot box stuffrd” with NS/LS players looking to expand their options in HS. We know they aren"t evil or bad, they just want an aspect that would be worth (isk/LP) their time as an alternate to their current activities. Meanwhile, the majority of the HS players get ignored. I suggested a possible solution earlier in this thread.

This thread is absolutely massive, and even looking through your posts I can’t find it as I can’t ctrl+F for your name each page as I would in the old forums (curse infini-scrolling!). I’m interested - and always have been - in ways to reach more people

[Krima_Sumyungi]

CCP and CSM ask the lions what the giraffes want and then wonder why the giraffes are always upset.

[Arrendis]

No, they’re asking everyone. They just don’t always understand that not everyone hears them asking.

[Jin_taan]

@Arrendis

There’s been plenty of content that’s ‘exclusive’ to null, or j-space, even if it’s only because that content is actually a rebalance of how we do things. The entire sov system is, after all, ‘exclusive to sov-null’. Rorqual mining is ‘exclusive to everywhere but high-sec’. Capital changes, same thing: ‘everywhere but high-sec’. So… .yeah, what’s wrong with them saying ‘Can we have something that’s ours?’

That’s the frustration here - Hisec is getting something unique, it’s getting Resource Wars and FoBs, which are new content exclusive to Hisec, and people are complaining it’s not what they wanted and because of that, CCP is actively failing Hisec. I mean, let’s not pretend every Nullsec player uses Capitals or Rorquals, or the Sov system on a day to day basis, hell, even at all in some cases.

The background points are very true though, as is the communications gap between a community and solo players. I’d love to do more to talk to solo players, which is why I’m taking this opportunity to talk to you guys and actively discuss the topic, as opposed to sitting back and laughing. When content like the Agency/Shadow of the Serpent and Burner missions have apparently failed, and the new content is not looking to please, I have to ask myself, what can CCP do, so that I can go and tell them what you guys want, whilst digging deeper into the reasoning for it so that I can actually back myself up when they probe deeper. I’m not a hisec CSM, and I’d never claim to be, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be an advocate for hisec if given enough information.

[Krima_Sumyungi]

@Arrendis

No, they’re asking everyone. They just don’t always understand that not everyone hears them asking.

They understand it. They just don’t care while having to maintain a semblance of caring.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

Wow, you did some digging to find that, especially since it’s like 71 pages deep in that thread. Regardless of that fact, using bling fits are actually encouraged. Also I’d like to point out this in the OP of that thread:

General Notes
– All layouts were made with EFT and an all V character designed for fastest possible finishing the missions. No Implants are needed, no booster or drugs were used.
– To optimize your kill speed or in case you can’t match the minimum tank use drugs to boost your tank and DPS
– Don’t ask for Drone ship layouts, the AI likes Drones very much and on top of that is more or less erratic.

Downgrading modules
– Be aware that most pimped layouts increase your margin of error a lot and allow for some minor mistakes. Downgrading layouts work most of the time but you also reduce your margin of error. Downgrading is useful in lowsec and nullsec and might be necessary in the face of ganking.
– In pimped layouts with expansive damage mods/rigs you can always switch for cheaper ones. Sometimes you need to fix your CPU then via Implantat or CPU mod/rig.
– This is only for professionals who know exactly how to use EFT:
In pimped layouts with expansive armor tank modules you can most times switch for cheaper ones but in addition you have to replace damage mods with extra tank mods.
In pimped layouts with expansive shield tank mods you can very rarely switch to cheap ones.
Make sure after you switched modules that your tank is sufficient and you still have enough DPS to break the Burner tank. Use EFT to compare the layouts.

Anyway, my main point was that Burner missions are level 4 encounter missions that a lot of other players can’t access. Also those missions can be gained in other security sectors of space, not just in high sec. So that in itself doesn’t really qualify as adding new content to high sec space for solo players.

I already stated earlier in this thread what type of ‘NEW’ missions I’d like to see added to this game.

Also I think there’s way too many w-hole signatures spawning in high sec, the amount of encounter sites spawning needs to be buffed. When I roam around in high sec, I mostly see a lot of w-hole and hacking signatures. Now if that’s due to players not doing them then surely that must say something about the type of content high sec players want.

[Querns]

@DeMichael_Crimson

Also I think there’s way too many w-hole signatures spawning in high sec, the amount of encounter sites spawning needs to be buffed. When I roam around in high sec, I mostly see a lot of w-hole and hacking signatures. Now if that’s due to players not doing them then surely that must say something about the type of content high sec players want.

To be fair, this is likely due to the fact that an exploration signature can only be completed once, while a wormhole can be transited by far more players. You observe there to be an abundance of WH signatures not because there are, but because the non-WH signatures get reaped extremely quickly, and take a little bit to respawn.

[Krima_Sumyungi]

@Jin_taan

@Arrendis

There’s been plenty of content that’s ‘exclusive’ to null, or j-space, even if it’s only because that content is actually a rebalance of how we do things. The entire sov system is, after all, ‘exclusive to sov-null’. Rorqual mining is ‘exclusive to everywhere but high-sec’. Capital changes, same thing: ‘everywhere but high-sec’. So… .yeah, what’s wrong with them saying ‘Can we have something that’s ours?’

That’s the frustration here - Hisec is getting something unique, it’s getting Resource Wars and FoBs, which are new content exclusive to Hisec, and people are complaining it’s not what they wanted and because of that, CCP is actively failing Hisec. I mean, let’s not pretend every Nullsec player uses Capitals or Rorquals, or the Sov system on a day to day basis, hell, even at all in some cases.

The background points are very true though, as is the communications gap between a community and solo players. I’d love to do more to talk to solo players, which is why I’m taking this opportunity to talk to you guys and actively discuss the topic, as opposed to sitting back and laughing. When content like the Agency/Shadow of the Serpent and Burner missions have apparently failed, and the new content is not looking to please, I have to ask myself, what can CCP do, so that I can go and tell them what you guys want, whilst digging deeper into the reasoning for it so that I can actually back myself up when they probe deeper. I’m not a hisec CSM, and I’d never claim to be, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be an advocate for hisec if given enough information.

Played any mmos outside fo EvE?

Try rifts and adventure quests in RIFT. Try dolmens in ESO. Group content that doesn’t require you to formally group and everyone who actively participates is rewarded for their time. And they can also be done solo.

[Arrendis]

@Jin_taan

That’s the frustration here - Hisec is getting something unique, it’s getting Resource Wars and FoBs, which are new content exclusive to Hisec, and people are complaining it’s not what they wanted

Well, personally I think it’s too soon to declare they’ve ‘failed’ on this score, but at the same time, the FOBs are being seen as ‘Pirate EC-Lite’. And I think the fact that both of the new HS elements read as ‘we’re pushing you into group play’ and unable to be completed solo has some people twitchy. Is that really unreasonable?

@Krima_Sumyungi:

@Krima_Sumyungi

They understand it. They just don’t care while having to maintain a semblance of caring.

That’s pretty cynical, don’t you think?

[Krima_Sumyungi]

@Arrendis

@Krima_Sumyungi

They understand it. They just don’t care while having to maintain a semblance of caring.

That’s pretty cynical, don’t you think?

Given the CCP/CSM track records to date? Nope.

[Querns]

@Arrendis

That’s pretty cynical, don’t you think?

It’s easier to process it as specific malice.

[DeMichael_Crimson]

So basically there should be more encounter sites spawning since w-holes tend to last for days on end.

Also what about the over abundance of Hacking sites? Granted it’s great content for new explorers but for those of us who have been explorers for a decade or more, those sites just aren’t interesting anymore.

[Arrendis]

Yeah, probably.