Introducing The Winter Expansion - EVE Online: Lifeblood

(Jin'taan) #304

The answer to that was 2010 & 2016/7. Solo players had burner missions added, which could be done solo and provided a challenge - but most people chose not to engage with the content because it required a skillset they didn’t wish to engage with. Then we had the Jove Observatory content, which people in this thread have said they liked - although they felt the move to social PvE in it ruined this as they don’t want to interact with people. Then we had the bringing in of more solo based PvE events, where you could go to sites in any system and see if you got a drop, which were specifically designed as solo content and have been continuing apace through this year.

Is what you want really just more missions, when the last time more missions were added (burners), they were thoroughly rebuffed by the missioning community?

(Arrendis) #305

So the answer to ‘when was the last time solo HS got some dev time?’ is the Jove Observatories… which we know was an event that happened across all of EVE, not just HS, and the other short-term events like Purity of the Throne, the Agency, etc, where the response has been ‘uhm, ok, that was underwhelming’… and which were also active in all of k-space? (Except Purity, which was still high and low). And before that… with 2 major expansions a year, mind… seven years ago? So it’s been roughly half the life of the game?

And you’re saying that’s totally fair? Really? I mean, dude, I’m obviously more concerned with things in null than in high, but keeping every part of the ecosystem working does actually matter, you know?

Some of them want more missions. Some of them want more missions that aren’t necessarily ‘Lets make this totally something incredibly hard that by the way, you should group up with a buddy to do these’, which is the case with burners. They just want new missions, so they’re not watching the same damned episodes of Futurama again when they go out missioning. Procedural mission generation can’t be that insane a goal, even in EVE. It’s literally ‘here’s the random encounter tables for this part of space’ with like 3-5 additional layers of recursion to make it more complex.

Some of them want more interesting missions, maybe more storyline chains. Some even want to feel like their missions matter, just a little bit, to the setting. And really, I don’t think that’s at all unreasonable, but I don’t expect that to happen. If that happened, then jeez, we might have to address the fact that we’ve killed over 200,000,000 Blood Raider ships in Delve in the last 12 months, and many times more than that among the Guristas in the years we were up in Deklein et al. Exactly how many lives will the pirates throw away without killing a single ship? You really have to wonder, at some point, you know?

Mostly, though? They want to feel like they’re not being told ‘Jesus H. Christ, we gave you something seven years ago, and you got some of what everyone got last year. Why isn’t that enough for you people?!?’. They want to be treated like they’re paying customers, too.

(Frostys Virpio) #306

Those burners are nothing like the mission they had before. If I am a wine drinker and I ask for more alcohol, you can take a bet with beer (burner missions) or you can make a safe try with more wine (same type of mission they already had).

Also, burner are pretty terrible if you are looking for something chill to do. Manual piloting + heat management to land a critical scram and web is not everyone’s cup of tea.

(Sgt Ocker) #307

They’re literally adding two new PvE options in hisec this patch though.

Pirate Forward Operating Bases is one, what is the second?

You surely can’t be referring to the new agency event as it wouldn’t be "new " content, just another addition to some so far poorly added thing Devs just can’t seem to make worth doing. Faction warfare style game play in highsec is doomed to failure.

What is being added for the average (solo) player - Lets see, pretty much nothing…

Time and again Devs show just how little they understand their player base and our (LOL) guiding light the CSM should just be left go the way of all other dinosaurs.

(Yiole Gionglao) #308

Burners were not missions. They were PvP-like PvE. I guess it’s unironical that (in my experience) they are run and liked mostly by PvP pilots…

Personally, I considered what losses would I sustain until I mastered them, how long I would stop doing what I enjoyed doing, and what would be the potential reward if it all went right, and dismissed them.

I also took part in Operation Frostline, it went nice and initially I enjoyed it, but jumping around and chasing sites for 30-40 systems each-bloody-night grew tiresome by the end of the event.

(Arcanith Lionheart) #309

Would like to see more of those mission chains that rarely sprout up that involve grabbing an item and placing it elsewhere, or maybe those weird ones that I ended up enjoying like keeping an eye to transport ships near this isolated station and you got to kill the “suspicious” transport ship. You know, missions that does not just involve killing, cause there are tons of them already.

I like reading the missions on what they offer, so new missions would give a spice on what is going on. Not like they contribute much to the lore anyway since most of them is basically “We got this problem, go solve it.”

One of the things I would definitely agree with.
Have the rats warp in while doing missions rather than that spontaneous spawn. I can understand the insta-spawn if its hidden or docked or whatever, but some missions could have them warp in, just like that Lucky Clash agency mission whenever you warped in the rat warps in.

(Yiole Gionglao) #310

I wish I could like, super-like this message. Yeah, paying customers who pay for everything everybody else has got, little or a lot, liked or not, wrong or right, but certainly is something compared to the ZERO new missions added since the Epic arcs and that time when someone rescued from a drawer the unfinished Pirate Scarlett mission code and released it.

(Jin'taan) #311

So, content only counts if it’s exclusive to hisec? I get that it hasn’t been worked on, but I think saying that solo content has been abandoned when there is new content designed specifically for casual, solo play, just because you find it to be too easy (whilst chastising group PvE being added as ‘too hard’ by barrier of entry/socialisation) is a bit exclusive. By that kind of logic, man, NPC Nullsec has literally never been iterated on since the pirate missions were added, and Lowsec as well unless you count clone soldiers.

This is more a symptom of the troubled roadmap EVE has been walking down, with changes that have been mostly backend, via citadels (something that’s been worked on for nearing 2 years), or have fallen emphatically flat (Aegis Sov). And, here, we’re seeing the end of it

To that end, I just don’t see why group content isn’t the answer here. I literally held a PvE roundtable last year and the overwhelming majority of people there asked for more content, and specifically, scalable content that could be done socially. If solo play is such an important niche, I do have to ask why people didn’t bring this up at all, or why those players weren’t represented.

Also, I got my dates wrong, Burner missions were originally introduced in 2014 and more were added in 2015 along with a second release later in the year.

This however, is something that I think is getting more to the crux of the issue. Do solo players want more to feel like they’re impacting the storyline, like we discussed with CCP last summit, with the idea of these small events having “sides” one could choose in order to actually impact the overall plot and what happens? Or perhaps more content like the Epic Arc?

(Jin'taan) #312

Resource Wars, which are specifically stated to be a PvE activity.

(DeMichael Crimson) #313

Not only are those Burner missions PvP based, they’re level 4 encounter missions that a lot of other players can’t access. Not to mention those missions also require max skills and multiple bling fit ships to complete.

Definitely not the type of ‘NEW’ mission content that I want to engage in.

(Jin'taan) #314

Right, so they’re too difficult, and as such they don’t count as content. I’d quibble about you calling it PvP when they’re literally rats, but I get where you’re coming from as they’re intended to simulate PvP from a stats PoV to make it a more challenging experience.

They don’t seem to require bling fits and I know I’ve done them in a Hawk a few times when they came out. But, if they did, in your opinion is it bad to give content where people have to test their skills, or use different fits or ships than they would in a typical Level 4 mission?

Note that I’m asking here out of genuine curiosity, as this is the real first time I’ve been able to interact with the solo PvE community, as normally you guys are incredibly quiet to the CSM, which is why we can’t tell CCP what you think.

(Arrendis) #315

There’s been plenty of content that’s ‘exclusive’ to null, or j-space, even if it’s only because that content is actually a rebalance of how we do things. The entire sov system is, after all, ‘exclusive to sov-null’. Rorqual mining is ‘exclusive to everywhere but high-sec’. Capital changes, same thing: ‘everywhere but high-sec’. So… .yeah, what’s wrong with them saying ‘Can we have something that’s ours?’

I don’t disagree that a lot of the work that’s been going on behind the scenes is to the benefit of everyone, but you know, we’re also a lot better at getting the information out to our guys than the people in high-sec who aren’t organized. We see the reduction of tidi with Brain-in-a-box. They usually don’t. We se the mining changes to a greater degree, because we are (or know) rorq-miners. Changes to boosting? Low and null saw that so much more than the small-scale high-sec player ever would, even in the case of mining boosts.

We see the effects of the back-end improvements, because we’re the ones who push the code to where it breaks down, where it screams. To a much, much larger extent… they don’t.

Because solo players who generally aren’t hooked into the EVE community are solo players who generally aren’t hooked into the EVE community. You tell a goon there’s gonna be a roundtable, a hundred will know in an hour. One solo HS player reads the forums… three days later, one solo HS player knows about it. Again: the very nature of the beast is that when there’s no posting of this sort of thing on the launcher, or other means of notification that the casual player can’t avoid… you’re going to get a vastly disproportionate number of socially-involved—and socially-motivated—players.

(Buoytender Bob) #316

We appreciate you reaching out to the HS community, at least the large part that feels underrepresented. That’s important for EVE’'s health. The problem in the past is that CCP and the CSM have relied on mainly direct ( in person/townhall meetings) that are , quite frankly, “ballot box stuffrd” with NS/LS players looking to expand their options in HS. We know they aren"t evil or bad, they just want an aspect that would be worth (isk/LP) their time as an alternate to their current activities. Meanwhile, the majority of the HS players get ignored. I suggested a possible solution earlier in this thread.

(Jin'taan) #317

This thread is absolutely massive, and even looking through your posts I can’t find it as I can’t ctrl+F for your name each page as I would in the old forums (curse infini-scrolling!). I’m interested - and always have been - in ways to reach more people :slight_smile:

(Krima Sumyungi) #318

CCP and CSM ask the lions what the giraffes want and then wonder why the giraffes are always upset.

(Arrendis) #319

No, they’re asking everyone. They just don’t always understand that not everyone hears them asking.

(Jin'taan) #320

That’s the frustration here - Hisec is getting something unique, it’s getting Resource Wars and FoBs, which are new content exclusive to Hisec, and people are complaining it’s not what they wanted and because of that, CCP is actively failing Hisec. I mean, let’s not pretend every Nullsec player uses Capitals or Rorquals, or the Sov system on a day to day basis, hell, even at all in some cases.

The background points are very true though, as is the communications gap between a community and solo players. I’d love to do more to talk to solo players, which is why I’m taking this opportunity to talk to you guys and actively discuss the topic, as opposed to sitting back and laughing. When content like the Agency/Shadow of the Serpent and Burner missions have apparently failed, and the new content is not looking to please, I have to ask myself, what can CCP do, so that I can go and tell them what you guys want, whilst digging deeper into the reasoning for it so that I can actually back myself up when they probe deeper. I’m not a hisec CSM, and I’d never claim to be, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be an advocate for hisec if given enough information.

(Krima Sumyungi) #321

They understand it. They just don’t care while having to maintain a semblance of caring.

(DeMichael Crimson) #322

Wow, you did some digging to find that, especially since it’s like 71 pages deep in that thread. Regardless of that fact, using bling fits are actually encouraged. Also I’d like to point out this in the OP of that thread:

General Notes
– All layouts were made with EFT and an all V character designed for fastest possible finishing the missions. No Implants are needed, no booster or drugs were used.
– To optimize your kill speed or in case you can’t match the minimum tank use drugs to boost your tank and DPS
– Don’t ask for Drone ship layouts, the AI likes Drones very much and on top of that is more or less erratic.

Downgrading modules
– Be aware that most pimped layouts increase your margin of error a lot and allow for some minor mistakes. Downgrading layouts work most of the time but you also reduce your margin of error. Downgrading is useful in lowsec and nullsec and might be necessary in the face of ganking.
– In pimped layouts with expansive damage mods/rigs you can always switch for cheaper ones. Sometimes you need to fix your CPU then via Implantat or CPU mod/rig.
– This is only for professionals who know exactly how to use EFT:
In pimped layouts with expansive armor tank modules you can most times switch for cheaper ones but in addition you have to replace damage mods with extra tank mods.
In pimped layouts with expansive shield tank mods you can very rarely switch to cheap ones.
Make sure after you switched modules that your tank is sufficient and you still have enough DPS to break the Burner tank. Use EFT to compare the layouts.

Anyway, my main point was that Burner missions are level 4 encounter missions that a lot of other players can’t access. Also those missions can be gained in other security sectors of space, not just in high sec. So that in itself doesn’t really qualify as adding new content to high sec space for solo players.

I already stated earlier in this thread what type of ‘NEW’ missions I’d like to see added to this game.

Also I think there’s way too many w-hole signatures spawning in high sec, the amount of encounter sites spawning needs to be buffed. When I roam around in high sec, I mostly see a lot of w-hole and hacking signatures. Now if that’s due to players not doing them then surely that must say something about the type of content high sec players want.

(Querns) #323

To be fair, this is likely due to the fact that an exploration signature can only be completed once, while a wormhole can be transited by far more players. You observe there to be an abundance of WH signatures not because there are, but because the non-WH signatures get reaped extremely quickly, and take a little bit to respawn.